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Author Topic: Mandarin Start  (Read 2156 times)

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Wizard of Woz

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Mandarin Start
« on: July 06, 2012, 11:01:47 am »
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Not sure if this has been discussed, so sorry if its a repeat.   Started a game with a 5/2 opening adn decided to go for a Mandarin.  This put the 5 coppers back on top, and I had 5 again next hand.  I could buy out the stack, if I wanted to.  How many should I buy? 

Here is the game log.  I lost, and didn't play particularly well, but other than that, how would you approach this Mandarin start?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/06/game-20120706-075901-19cd5568.html
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thirtyseven

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 11:20:28 am »
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This board seems very opponent-dependent. Silk Roads look like the way to go here, but your opponent could easily multi-Embargo them. In a mirror match, Smugglers, not Mandarin, would be important (your opponent smuggles some silk on turn 20). If your opponent is going for provinces, though, perhaps Mandarin is better than Smugglers for a Silk Roads strategy, but I'm not experienced enough to know. Either way I'm pretty sure you only want a max of 1-3.
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I'm only a mid-level player, so I may be wrong...

gman314

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 11:23:16 am »
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In my experience, the best approach to a Mandarin start is to immediately consider how many terminal actions you want and then see if Mandarin fits into that. Because of Mandarin's top-decking ability, if you want Mandarin, you can then probably add one more Terminal to your count. The other useful thing about a Mandarin opening is getting the Mandarin and another card that you want (see Hunting Party/Mandarin http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/01/09/combo-of-the-day-27-hunting-partyx/). In your game, the other useful card would have to be a $3 because of the lack of non-Mandarin $5 and any $4s. But even getting a $3 can be useful depending on the $3.

However, it's not really a good idea to buy many Mandarins. Even though they allow you to top-deck cards, they are terminals so you probably don't want many. Even 3 in what would then be a deck of 14 cards is probably on the heavy side. The other thing to remember is that Dominion is a fast game and while you're buying Mandarins your opponent is actually using his purchased cards and getting his plan going into a mid-game stage. So, taking even 3 turns on an opening can be dangerous; especially in a game with attacks (which your game didn't have).

So, to summarize, you probably only want one Mandarin during your opening. Getting more than 1 slows you down while your opponent cruises ahead. Also, attacks played on turn 3 could mess up your extended opening. However, Mandarin can help you get some key components early on. Don't go out of your way to buy a lot of them, but keep them in mind when planning your strategy.
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ehunt

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 11:28:49 am »
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lots of nice info on mandarin start here
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1582.0

TL;DR I probably wouldn't do it unless duke or apprentice.
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DG

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 11:56:23 am »
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With your opponent buying a smuggler I think you probably want an embargo from the 5/2 just to kill off the silk roads. That would suggest that you don't want more than one mandarin from the 5 hand since you don't want too many terminals. Generally you also want to put treasure on top of your deck for provinces turns later in the game and if you buy too many early on the deck will congest. I've also got no experience of how mandarins fare against fortune tellers but I'd be wary of it.
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qmech

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 02:08:45 pm »
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There isn't a particular issue with Mandarin and Fortune Teller because you draw the top-decked card during your clean-up phase.
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DG

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 02:32:35 pm »
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Quote
There isn't a particular issue with Mandarin and Fortune Teller because you draw the top-decked card during your clean-up phase.

Could you get ongoing deterioration though if you continually get bad cards carried from hand to hand by the mandarin and the fortune teller?
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popsofctown

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Re: Mandarin Start
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 03:08:59 pm »
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My gut says you buy exactly 1 starting Mandarin on that board.  Just, instinct.
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