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[Powerman]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/04/game-20120704-083940-2bd5eb0e.html

Although I won this game quite easily, my opponent raised an interesting point about IGG Rushes in general.  Do you agree that they eliminate the "skill" aspect of the game, or do you think they simply add in a new "skill"?

10:34 Cruton: i think a lot of the skill has gone out of this game
10:34 Powerman: Idk, igg rushes are always interesting
10:34 Cruton: how?
10:35 Cruton: this is dull as donuts
10:35 Powerman: You could have vetoed it..
10:35 Cruton: i should have
10:35 Cruton: how did you buy a colony?
10:36 Cruton: ah you have a platinum
10:36 Powerman: i bought a platinum earlier, then plat igg silver c c
10:36 Cruton: what did you use to buy platinum?
10:36 Cruton: this game was over after you bought the 2nd igg
10:36 Powerman: igg igg igg sil c
10:39 Cruton: good skill!
10:39 Powerman: Good game
10:39 Cruton: u2

[DG]

They provide quite a few games where each player can see something close close to the optimum strategy and the resulting mirror match is decided by shuffle luck. I don't think that's true of the kingdom you posted since there are options for develop and warehouse as an alternative for silver.

[sjelkjd]

One way to check would be to look at council room's effect with for IGG in general(it's down at the moment).  Usually when I see people complaining about IGG = no skill, they misplayed.  In your game it's pretty obvious - you're close to 3 piling and he's buying platinums instead of provinces.

[iangoth]

IGG games can be surprisingly nuanced. What terminals to buy and how many, when to gain copper, do you buy the last IGG or get a head start on the duchies, do you go for the "rush" or plan to pick up some provinces, etc. The problem is, most of the nuances aren't evident to new players, so they assume when they lose it was due to luck.

[Kahryl]

I think IGG (and Jack, and Torturer) is a terribly designed card, but unlike Jack and Torturer it doesn't completely warp the game into a very narrow corner. IGG is SO good that you almost always want to buy it with 5+, but if both players do that, victory will still depend on how they handle the aftermath.

[RisingJaguar]

His opening doesn't scream, I know how to play IGG.  I mean you want warehouse eventually, but getting to $5 is so important that silver/silver is probably better.  Caravan can't be good here.

I think the most interesting thing to try would be develop/quarry into GMs/warehouses, although I think it does get rocked easily.

[Grujah]

In your game it's pretty obvious - you're close to 3 piling and he's buying platinums instead of provinces.

This.

Also, develop is good with IGG for turning them into Gold (GMs and Caravans in this case, which is quite strong, dunno why nobody tried it).

[ehunt]

I think IGG games can be a little dry, but it doesn't suck the skill out of the game. I used to really hate Minion when I was a relative noob, partly because they were so slow on BSW, partly because I would always look at a board, think, hey, here's a clever way to win without buying Minion!, and be wrong and lose to a boring minion strategy. I feel that way about IGG now.

I mean, look, contrast with envoy/big money. a really boring strategy, but I expect Geronimoo or WanderingWinder to win much more often than 50% against me when that's the dominant strategy on the board, purely based off of better intuitive knowledge of win to start buying duchies in these types of games.

[carstimon]

Let me play devil's advocate.  The thing about the IGG rush, in comparison to strong, simple strategies like minion or envoy/BM, is the strong attack.  If there's no other cursers and your opponent IGG rushes and you don't, you gain around 10 curses.  You're forced to play IGG.  Compare to double jack, another simple strong strategy.  It's still possible to try other things if my opponent goes double jack.

Of course, this also happens if we have one of some curser.  (Barring cards that deal with curses very well.)  The differences are that 1) IGG can give you a curse a turn from turns like 5-10*, 2) Getting IGG practically defines your strategy.  Yeah, you can improve on an IGG rush (develop) but the game becomes how to do the IGG rush correctly.

That being said, I do think IGG is an interesting card (which I did hate when it first came out). 

*I don't know if this is quite right or if it's best to buy IGG over duchies or whatever

win to start buying duchies

when by knowing win

[Powerman]

In your game it's pretty obvious - you're close to 3 piling and he's buying platinums instead of provinces.

This.

Also, develop is good with IGG for turning them into Gold (GMs and Caravans in this case, which is quite strong, dunno why nobody tried it).

Wow, totally missed develop here as a good card.  I'm so used to it being terrible bad so I just skipped over it.

[zahlman]

If there's no other cursers and your opponent IGG rushes and you don't, you gain around 10 curses.  You're forced to play IGG.

... But the same reasoning applies to any other curser if it's the only one in the kingdom...

[carstimon]

If there's no other cursers and your opponent IGG rushes and you don't, you gain around 10 curses.  You're forced to play IGG.

... But the same reasoning applies to any other curser if it's the only one in the kingdom...

Second paragraph