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[Personman]

Stream is down. Watch at twitch.tv/jseakle and check out the archives at youtube.com/PersonmanGaming. Feedback is much appreciated!

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but I didn't see an obviously better one.

Inspired by WanderingWinder, I'm going to try out streaming (and recording) some isotropic games! I'm not #3 on the leaderboard (I think I peaked at #88 last week and have recently dropped a bit) but I have some unconventional ideas about Dominion that you might find interesting, and respectable records against many of the top players.

In particular, I was motivated to do this by the fear that some of the things I love about Isotropic (and drheld's wonderful extension) are going to disappear when it is replaced by the official client. Now, I'm all for Rio Grande Games making tons of money off of their client, and I'm probably going to pay for it. But I am worried that a large part of my playstyle, and a large part of what makes high level Dominion really interesting, is going to be overlooked. Rather than whine about it, I thought I'd try to show the world why I think features such as a complete game log, point counter, and deck contents display are vital to serious Dominion play.

I really, really don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I have nothing against players who do not enjoy playing with more complete information. But I think there may be people out there who simply don't understand *why* one would want those things, or realize the strategic depth that they enable, and it is those people that I'm interested in reaching. And I think it would be lovely if there are enough of us to convince RGG to include some totally optional features that allow the kind of highly technical play that is possible on Isotropic to flourish.

I don't really expect it to work, but streaming sounds fun for its own sake, and I look forward to any constructive criticism of my play!

EDIT: There was a problem with my streaming setup for the first 18 minutes or so of the first video, so you should skip to around there if you want to be able to see anything that's going on. The quality is still pretty bad after that, which I'll try to work on for next time, but you can at least tell what all the cards are.

[Eevee]

Are you going to be posting the videos to youtube too?

[Personman]

Well, I got three whole viewers, and things were going well, but then the livestream servers crapped out! Still trying to get things back online, we'll see if it clears up.

[WanderingWinder]

I always wish more people would video. It is much easier to engage than the text logs, though those are nice too.
A few others (jonts26, jsh357, michaeljb, theory) have done some videos. But none in a good while...

[Personman]

It looks like the server is back up! I took a few turns in the game, but it's not much further along than where we left off

[Eevee]

I always wish more people would video. It is much easier to engage than the text logs, though those are nice too.
A few others (jonts26, jsh357, michaeljb, theory) have done some videos. But none in a good while...

Well, you've set quite a high standard.

.. Personman is doing a great job though!

[WanderingWinder]

Tip: zoom in your livestream a bit, it will make things much more readable.
I had the same issue when I started.

[Personman]

Thanks! I will. However, it seems that right now livestream hates me, and keeps disconnecting and reconnecting.

Hey does it work for you by chance? It would be nice to know it's really on their end.

[WanderingWinder]

Thanks! I will. However, it seems that right now livestream hates me, and keeps disconnecting and reconnecting.

Hey does it work for you by chance? It would be nice to know it's really on their end.

Just tried it out, on nothing, for you. And.... it's not going well. Yeah, their end issue, it seems. I've had stuff like this a couple times. Just try again later.

Maybe the leap second screwed them up?

[jsh357]

I got a bit demotivated after a long losing streak that knocked down to low20 levels, but I may do more at some point. making it in to the 1% has improved my confidence some.  a lot of times I feel like my commentary is poor/bad advice. I do still watch all the videos posted.  will check out personman when there are recordings

btw twitch TV > live stream, but you will always get better quality from a regular screen recording if you don't mind losing streamability

[Personman]

Interesting, I'll try twitch after this game.

I do like letting it be live. And it's waaaay less work to get the vods up than uploading things to youtube by hand.

Maybe the leap second screwed them up?

:D I actually just narrowly avoided having to deal with that for work.

[WanderingWinder]

btw twitch TV > live stream, but you will always get better quality from a regular screen recording if you don't mind losing streamability

Please elaborate.

[jsh357]

btw twitch TV > live stream, but you will always get better quality from a regular screen recording if you don't mind losing streamability

Please elaborate.

I used to use live stream a lot, but in the past year the number of ads, downtime, and connection conniptions have increased dramatically.  my friend suggested I try twitch TV with xsplit and it basically eliminated these problems in addition to having almost no delay on the viewer end.  I've been impressed, but I'll admit xsplit takes some getting used to compared to procaster.

as for quality, there's just no competition: camtasia gets me better footage than procaster and makes it easy to edit right away.  I do a lot of audio cuts to remove static, pops, etc. and occasionally fix my enunciation or throw in things.  for dominion, I suppose the quality isn't the biggest deal ever though.  your videos look fine, for instance.  (the only real suggestion I have for them is getting a pop filter for your regular Mic; the headphones actually sound a little better.)

[greatexpectations]

I always wish more people would video. It is much easier to engage than the text logs, though those are nice too.
A few others (jonts26, jsh357, michaeljb, theory) have done some videos. But none in a good while...

WW, would you be willing to put together an instruction guide/video on how to go about doing all this? recommended software to use, settings to adjust, etc.  i think that others (myself included) might be more inclined to contribute if they could get past the (possibly simple?) barriers of setting it all up.  just my two cents.

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

[Personman]

WanderingWinder, how long should I expect it to take for saved videos to show up in my livestream library? My first one ended quite a while ago and it's not there, does it take a few hours or something?

I've installed XSplit and I'm working on getting up and running with twitch! It'll be at  twitch.tv/jseakle

[Eevee]

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

You should add olneyce for the guys who've made some videos.

Oh and WW, your audio sounds a lot better with the headset than it did earlier.

[WanderingWinder]

I always wish more people would video. It is much easier to engage than the text logs, though those are nice too.
A few others (jonts26, jsh357, michaeljb, theory) have done some videos. But none in a good while...

WW, would you be willing to put together an instruction guide/video on how to go about doing all this? recommended software to use, settings to adjust, etc.  i think that others (myself included) might be more inclined to contribute if they could get past the (possibly simple?) barriers of setting it all up.  just my two cents.

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

Honestly, jsh just put more than I know in total probably in this very thread. I am not the best person on this stuff. Indeed, I now have to go try some of that out...

[WanderingWinder]

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

You should add olneyce for the guys who've made some videos.

Oh and WW, your audio sounds a lot better with the headset than it did earlier.

Ugh. I hate that headset. Very uncomfortable.

[jsh357]

I always wish more people would video. It is much easier to engage than the text logs, though those are nice too.
A few others (jonts26, jsh357, michaeljb, theory) have done some videos. But none in a good while...

WW, would you be willing to put together an instruction guide/video on how to go about doing all this? recommended software to use, settings to adjust, etc.  i think that others (myself included) might be more inclined to contribute if they could get past the (possibly simple?) barriers of setting it all up.  just my two cents.

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

that's not a bad idea.  recording isotropic is actually extremely simple.  I can suggest several methods.  I'm on the highway right now, but off the top of my head, these are the easiest methods:

1. livestream procaster, does almost all work for you, seriously. downside is livestream itself is sometimes iffy.
2. screen recording software such as camtasia, camstudio.  big downside here is $$$
3. twitch TV with xsplit.  not the most user friendly. 

if you want to edit footage, like add footnotes or pictures or funny clips, there's camstudio, virtual dub, Vegas, final cut for Mac, windows movie maker and tons of other software, some free some not.

audacity is a good tool if for whatever reason you need to record audio separately. it's free and quite simple.

[WanderingWinder]

WanderingWinder, how long should I expect it to take for saved videos to show up in my livestream library? My first one ended quite a while ago and it's not there, does it take a few hours or something?

I've installed XSplit and I'm working on getting up and running with twitch! It'll be at  twitch.tv/jseakle

Honestly, I haven't actually looked at the livestream in so long, I don't remember.

[Eevee]

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

You should add olneyce for the guys who've made some videos.

Oh and WW, your audio sounds a lot better with the headset than it did earlier.

Ugh. I hate that headset. Very uncomfortable.

Okay "a lot better" was overstating it. Its a noticeable difference, but not like a huge deal.

[Personman]

So I have a twitch/justin.tv account, and I downloaded XSplit, but whenever i try to add my account it instantly says "your channel is not available yet". I'm poking around the websites trying to figure it out, but if you've done this before and know what I'm missing it could be very helpful

[jsh357]

also, in a sort of related note, i added a blurb about the videos to the FAQ. if you want anything added/removed from that let me know.

You should add olneyce for the guys who've made some videos.

Oh and WW, your audio sounds a lot better with the headset than it did earlier.

Ugh. I hate that headset. Very uncomfortable.

headsets tend to sound better than the average cheap Mic, but one tool you can get to improve a regular one is the pop filter.  they smooth out your voice considerably.  not sure how much they run.

I use a headset myself, which is great except it makes a loud tick if I move my head too much, which I have to edit out every time.  pretty frustrating

[jsh357]

So I have a twitch/justin.tv account, and I downloaded XSplit, but whenever i try to add my account it instantly says "your channel is not available yet". I'm poking around the websites trying to figure it out, but if you've done this before and know what I'm missing it could be very helpful

man, I wish I could remember.  I also had to jump through some hoop iirc, but drawing a blank.  not near my PC or I'd help out.

[WanderingWinder]

From my end anyway, this underemployed dude isn't spending any money to improve what is a hobby within a hobby.

[Personman]

Yay! I figured it out. twitch.tv/jseakle is live!

[WanderingWinder]

Yay! I figured it out. twitch.tv/jseakle is live!

But broadcasting your whole screen to only the top quarter of our videos!

[Personman]

Oh no! I will try to fix it after this game

EDIT: I lost, but I fixed the stream!

[WanderingWinder]

A few notes for now.
First, if you could zoom your area in to see just the area of the game, rather than your whole screen, this would make things a bit easier to see. Don't know how easy this is.
Second, if you break them up, it's easier to deal with things game by game by game.
Third, if you put them on the YouTube, they're comment-able. Which, I think, is a good thing.
Finally (the only gameplay thing for now, since I haven't watched it all): in the game you start at 39 minutes, you can probably pick up the herbalists at some point after a tortured hand later on, but this isn't really a big deal, because as you assess (and I think correctly), the game is really about getting those chains in. But at the point where you get hit by GS and then torturer, you make a clear mistake. You put copper and estate back on your deck, but you have an extra action coming, and a torturer in hand. So you should put FV and copper back on your deck, because you're drawing the two you put back with torturer anyway, so the only difference is in if you get tortured (as you do) after, in which case you want to have the bad cards in your hand, rather than the good.

[Personman]

Okay, twitch claims it has an upload-to-youtube feature, and I used it, so maybe in a while there will be some archived videos at http://www.youtube.com/PersonmanGaming.

Hopefully going to stream some more later today and I'll try to get the zoom and quality issues worked out.

You're absolutely right about that play mistake of course - I must have just forgotten that I had a fishing village from the previous turn. Thanks for pointing that out.

It seems really obnoxious for people watching live for me to stop and start the stream every time a game ends - I think they might end up having to watch an ad at the beginning of every game? Even if not, it's annoying, and it will appear that the stream is offline to anyone who tunes in in between games. I'm currently looking into twitch.tv's "highlight" feature - hopefully it lets you export just the highlighted part to youtube. If so, I'll do that, and everything will be just dandy.

[Eevee]

I think there is considerably more of us who watch the videos afterwards on youtube than there are guys who watch the stream live, so catering to the former group would seem more reasonable to me.

[Personman]

I've chopped it all up into individual games. They're currently processing on twitch, but it looks like you can upload single highlights to YouTube, so it's all good.

[qmech]

WW mentioned it, but these are hard to watch since they're so pixellated.  Are you able to get a closer crop on the play area?

[Personman]

Alright, I think I've found some settings that make the game much more readable! There are also starting to be games from last night on YouTube, though unfortunately my account seems to have the 15 minute limit, so they are split into playlists :/ If anyone knows a way around that, it would be much appreciated.

I'm going to start streaming some more games in just a few minutes!

[Captain_Frisk]

What plugin are you using that shows the relative composition of decks (the green / yellow boxes next to the cards?  That is HOT!)

[Eevee]

What plugin are you using that shows the relative composition of decks (the green / yellow boxes next to the cards?  That is HOT!)

http://goo.gl/iDihS, only works on chrome afaik.

[Personman]

So there's a thunderstorm here and the power cut out during my stream :/ It came right back on but I think I shouldn't try to stream any more until it passes. For those watching, once I made it back it, dghunter actually disconnected as well, and I got the win. Perhaps he lives near me!

I don't feel too bad about the win, since I was in a pretty dominant position, but it's sad that my video gets cut off. Hopefully there will be fewer interruptions next time!

[Personman]

What plugin are you using that shows the relative composition of decks (the green / yellow boxes next to the cards?  That is HOT!)

MrEevee pointed you to the right place already, but I just wanted to reiterate that this is a big part of why I started streaming. I think that the kind of play enabled by the extension is what competitive Dominion can and should be all about, and I'm worried that when Isotropic gets taken down there simply won't be any outlet for serious players who want to play at that level.

I have to say a million times over that there is nothing bad or inferior about preferring casual Dominion, but I hope that watching my games can give even a casual player a sense of WHY serious players like me enjoy having access to all public information, and how it can enrich the strategic landscape considerably.

I should also note that it is certainly possible to get the extension (and in fact, almost any Chrome extension) up and running in Firefox via Greasemonkey - it's just a bunch of javascript, and can be saved as a Greasemonkey user script. I've never actually tried to do it myself though, since I prefer chrome. If there is demand, I could try to put together a tutorial for Firefox.

[WanderingWinder]

What plugin are you using that shows the relative composition of decks (the green / yellow boxes next to the cards?  That is HOT!)

MrEevee pointed you to the right place already, but I just wanted to reiterate that this is a big part of why I started streaming. I think that the kind of play enabled by the extension is what competitive Dominion can and should be all about, and I'm worried that when Isotropic gets taken down there simply won't be any outlet for serious players who want to play at that level.

I have to say a million times over that there is nothing bad or inferior about preferring casual Dominion, but I hope that watching my games can give even a casual player a sense of WHY serious players like me enjoy having access to all public information, and how it can enrich the strategic landscape considerably.

I should also note that it is certainly possible to get the extension (and in fact, almost any Chrome extension) up and running in Firefox via Greasemonkey - it's just a bunch of javascript, and can be saved as a Greasemonkey user script. I've never actually tried to do it myself though, since I prefer chrome. If there is demand, I could try to put together a tutorial for Firefox.

Not to start 'this thread' again... Edit: wait, let's really not. Just know that there are people who heartily disagree: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3107.25

[Personman]

I'd love to talk to you about it more in PM. As far as this thread, I'll just link to this recent video, which I think gives a great demonstration of the kinds of plays that having the deck contents display enables.

Again: I mean no one any ill-will, and I have nothing against other people's preferred styles of play. I just know that there ARE some people who are currently able to play what they consider a very close to perfect version of one of the best games ever made, and that we will be sad if that ability vanishes. I hope that my stream and videos are effective at showing those who have a gut instinct to disparage the extension as "cheating" that it is a valid and worthwhile way to play, and that they introduce players who don't yet know that they prefer the extension to the game of their dreams (it looks like I've already met with some early success in Captain_Frisk!). Lastly, I have the vague hope that if I am successful in expanding the community of people who love the extension, it will bring the FunSockets team around to adding in similar, optional features for us, or inspiring someone to write an equivalent extension for the FunSockets client.

[Kirian]

I have to say a million times over that there is nothing bad or inferior about preferring casual Dominion, but I hope that watching my games can give even a casual player a sense of WHY serious players like me enjoy having access to all public information, and how it can enrich the strategic landscape considerably.

Not to start 'this thread' again... Edit: wait, let's really not. Just know that there are people who heartily disagree: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3107.25

Indeed.  Since you two are playing in the finals, you should assume WW will disable it for those games, Personman, as he did in the semis.

What I want to see is WW and PM both streaming the finals...

[Personman]

If I can figure out how to set up a delay, I will be streaming the finals. Otherwise I'll try to record them and upload them later. I don't want to miss my chance at Chicago because one of my opponents was watching my stream ;)

I only ever play on Isotropic with the point counter set to be un-disableable. This is already announced in my status, but there it is in case anyone is surprised.

[WanderingWinder]

If I can figure out how to set up a delay, I will be streaming the finals. Otherwise I'll try to record them and upload them later. I don't want to miss my chance at Chicago because one of my opponents was watching my stream

I only ever play on Isotropic with the point counter set to be un-disableable. This is already announced in my status, but there it is in case anyone is surprised.

I will take this as against the rules of the tournament, and pre-file a complaint.

[jsh357]

in xsplit, you can record without Broadcasting if I remember right.  you could just save the videos to your machine and upload them later.

[Personman]

Yeah, that's what I intend to do. It would be more fun if people could watch live, but the delay feature is for paying customers only, and I don't intend to stream so much that it's worth purchasing the software.

I'm also going to stream one or two games right now!

[WanderingWinder]

If I can figure out how to set up a delay, I will be streaming the finals. Otherwise I'll try to record them and upload them later. I don't want to miss my chance at Chicago because one of my opponents was watching my stream

I only ever play on Isotropic with the point counter set to be un-disableable. This is already announced in my status, but there it is in case anyone is surprised.

I will take this as against the rules of the tournament, and pre-file a complaint.

Meanwhile, this is creating a big bru-ha-ha. As much as theory wants to just pretend the thing isn't an issue, or isn't important, or doesn't exist, when the rubber hits the road, it's still there. And we get to have nice long discussions about it on the day finals are supposed to be played (and not before...)

[Eevee]

If I can figure out how to set up a delay, I will be streaming the finals. Otherwise I'll try to record them and upload them later. I don't want to miss my chance at Chicago because one of my opponents was watching my stream

I only ever play on Isotropic with the point counter set to be un-disableable. This is already announced in my status, but there it is in case anyone is surprised.

I will take this as against the rules of the tournament, and pre-file a complaint.

Meanwhile, this is creating a big bru-ha-ha. As much as theory wants to just pretend the thing isn't an issue, or isn't important, or doesn't exist, when the rubber hits the road, it's still there. And we get to have nice long discussions about it on the day finals are supposed to be played (and not before...)

I dont even understand why talking about it should be prohibited really. We are all civilized adults, why wouldnt we be able to discuss things we disagree on with civility? If theory decides to allow such discussion, we should obviously create a dedicated thread for it and not clog other threads with offtopic though.

[Personman]

Videos of the DominionStrategy Qualifier Finals are up!

Game 1

Games 2-5

Don't ask why they are split like that. Sorry.

[Personman]

Currently streaming a few games off and on.

[Davio]

Haven't read the entire thread as I'm lazy, but you can enlarge the elements in your browser by pressing CTRL-+ (so the plus sign on your numpad) or by holding CTRL and scrolling with your mouse wheel. Scrolling up enlarges, scrolling down makes everything smaller.

[eHalcyon]

Haven't read the entire thread as I'm lazy, but you can enlarge the elements in your browser by pressing CTRL-+ (so the plus sign on your numpad) or by holding CTRL and scrolling with your mouse wheel. Scrolling up enlarges, scrolling down makes everything smaller.

And ctrl+0 to reset to default.

[Personman]

Haven't read the entire thread as I'm lazy, but you can enlarge the elements in your browser by pressing CTRL-+ (so the plus sign on your numpad) or by holding CTRL and scrolling with your mouse wheel. Scrolling up enlarges, scrolling down makes everything smaller.

Oh, darn - I had resolved this problem for the most part, but then I tried recording a fullscreen game, and I forgot to set it back for my most recent several videos, so yes, those look terrible. If you go back to the finals videos or the few before that, I have the stream zoomed in much more. Thanks for pointing this out, and sorry!

[Personman]

Going to stream a few games, with a new quality setting suggested by Fabian, in preparation for the final playoff between myself and ednever at 10pm eastern tonight. I won't be streaming the finals, but I will post recordings shortly after.

EDIT: Not too sure if my stream is working. It seemed to be live during the game, but the recording hasn't shown up, and it's been a long time. Doing local recordings for now, and will upload to YouTube.

EDIT 2: Turned out it was fine, but I was an idiot and left the sound unmuted on my stream, so you get to hear everything twice on that one :/ Probably too annoying to actually listen to, but I thought it was an interesting game, so you can watch it here anyway. Did another one locally that you can watch here, and now I'm going to turn the stream back on!

[Personman]

Several more games up on my channel. They were all fairly straightforward, though I learned some good lessons. This is probably the most interesting one, with added tension because it was between me and ednever, who I will face in the finals playoff in 20 minutes!

And you can watch this one if you want to watch me get beaten hilariously badly.

[Personman]

Stream going live!