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TonyStark

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Cards that Best Represent Sets
« on: June 21, 2012, 10:22:24 pm »
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Hi. First post (so I hope it's cool if I used it to start a topic)! I've played under the same name on Isotropic on-and-off for a while now, but only occasionally pop in to these forums (and just now registered). One thing that I enjoy about this and many other games is finding new ways to combine subsets of cards. That's what lead me to this little project for my real-life Dominion collection.

Well, that and a desire to come up with a fun but smaller set of Dominion cards to teach friends from (I own everything Dominion, which is too much when you're trying to transport other games as well). I've tried before to pack everything needed to show off as much of the game as possible into one box, but then one day this idea hit me. What about bringing the cards that best represent their respective sets?

So what follows is what I've come up with so far, but I'd appreciate the input of this dedicated Dominion community on where I went wrong (or right!). In order of release, I'll post a brief how and why about the cards I chose. (Note that I deliberately left a few Kindgom-warping cards off the lists, like Minion and King's Court, but if you can make a strong argument for their inclusion, please persuade me!)


DOMINION
As the first set, I felt it was appropriate to both keep things simple and focus on the basics: +Card, +Action, +$, +Buy.

Village
Woodcutter
Smithy
Festival
Laboratory
Market

All use those basic +'s exclusively. That wasn't a particularly exciting selection, and there are other card types, so I added Attacks and a Reaction that have basic things for half their functionality.

Moat
Militia
Spy
Witch

That gave me a nice, round, 10-card start.


INTRIGUE
To me, Intrigue is about choice. My list attempts to maximize a player's options.

Pawn - Four choices, mix-n-matching two.
Secret Chamber - The choice to use it as a Reaction, the choice to rearrange cards when reacting, and the choice to turn other cards into money.
Masquerade - Choice to pass, choice to trash.
Steward - Three choices.
Baron - Choice to discard or gain (and also because he's the Most Interesting Card in the Game (tm)).
Torturer - Gives other players a choice!
Nobles - Two choices.


SEASIDE
Here the theme is next turn. I started with the broader idea "save it for later," but that included almost every card in the set!

Haven
Lighthouse
Fishing Village
Caravan
Merchant Ship
Outpost
Tactician
Wharf

The Durations are pretty self-explanatory, I think.

Ghost Ship - Involves other players' next turns!
Treasury - The only other non-Duration that deals exclusively with your next turn (unlike Treasure Map, for example, which could give your Gold to you this turn with more Actions/Draw or Watchtower; such cards would've been included under the aforementioned broadened theme).


ALCHEMY
This is one set I need a lot of help with. There isn't a clear "Potion cards let you do X" rule. One thing I came up with was cards that are "strictly" better than similar cards that don't cost P. Scrying Pool (Spy), Alchemist (Laboratory), and Familiar (Witch) were included. But that isn't very satisfying.

PROSPERITY
The set of too many themes. Like Seaside, I had to narrow the card choices down here. But I'm not sure I like what I've got.

Bishop
Monument
Goons

All give you more VP than you could normally get.

Bank
Expand
Forge
Peddler

All cost more than kingdom cards usually do. Other options I toyed around with were Money (Talisman, Hoard, etc.) and cards that grew in strength as the game progressed (Trade Route, City).


CORNUCOPIA
Variety! Easy enough, and one of my favorite themes.

Menagerie - Wants to show off different animals/cards.
Tournament - Adds 5 cards to any Kingdom.
Young Witch - Adds an extra Kingdom card (as well as a Cursing Attack, which won't necessarily be seen too often).
Harvest - Wants to reap different foods/cards.
Horn of Plenty - More delicious/powerful when filled with different foods/cards.
Hunting Party - Finds different trophies/cards.
Fairgrounds - Celebrates different cards.


HINTERLANDS
Immediate effect when purchasing/gaining was another pretty simple theme to follow.

Duchess - Free with purchase of Duchy. Limit one coupon per customer. Not valid with other offers.
Fool's Gold - Passes as real if others have buying power, too.
Develop - (Near) instant gratification.
Noble Brigand - So noble he'll shoot you with your pants down.
Nomad Camp - Always on the move...if that move is to the top of your deck.
Trader - Why collect Copper to purchase Silver when you could get Silver at the same price?
Cache - In case you really did want to collect Copper.
Embassy - In case you'd prefer everyone else having Silver.
Haggler - Why sell me your Silver when I can take a Silver and a Copper off your hands for the same price?
Ill-Gotten Gains - Very ill-gotten, since you're not even the one who gets stuck with the Curse!
Inn - Everyone's favorite meeting-place.
Mandarin - You'll like him, or your money back (well, your money back anyway)!
Border Village - Free Village with purchase of $5 card.
Farmland - I'm out of witticisms, but you get the idea.


PROMO
I haven't included any promo cards, because they don't have a unifying theme. There are a few standouts, though, that do things no other card in the game does. Black Market (wealth of new Kingdom cards); Stash (everyone knows where you're hiding it); Governor (weirdly asymmetrical).


And that's that! Please feel free to tell me what I should've included, but didn't, and what I shouldn't include, but did!
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Morgrim7

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 10:28:08 pm »
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Alchemy:
Scrying Pool
Vineyard
Alchemist
Apothecary
Apprentice
You must remember that another theme of Alchemy was action-heavy decks. Alchemist, Apothecary, and Apprentice all have actions that have to do with Potions. Maybe Potion could be put in that list, too. ;)

Maybe some alt treasures in Prosperity? And KC. Don't forget KC.
By the way, Welcome to the Forum!!!
Edit: Maybe you could put Golem and Possession in Alchemy.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 10:45:54 pm »
+1

There was another thread about this.  The best response there was to look at the cursers:

Witch -- simple
Torturer -- choice
Sea Hag -- affects next turn
Alchemy -- encourages action chains (by being a cantrip)
Mountebank -- money, even if it's a lowly copper
Young Witch -- adds variety via bane
IGG -- on-gain curse

Edit: I have no idea what to search to find that thread.
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michaeljb

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 10:51:32 pm »
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eHalcyon beat me to it! Both giving the answer based on Cursers and the part about not knowing where the original thread was...
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AJD

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 11:50:47 pm »
+2

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eHalcyon

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 12:20:30 am »
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Since looking at cursers works so well, I wonder if the same holds true for trashers.  There are a few in each set though, so it's a little trickier than picking out the cursers.

Chapel -- simple, effective.
Masquerade -- ties in a choice of what to pass.
Lookout -- Affects your next turn by removing 2 cards from the top of your deck.
Trade Route -- can be worth a lot of coin, especially with alt VP.
Bishop -- trash for VP.

Alchemy is a bit stranger.  I've been trying to pick out the trashers that aren't in the remodel family or TFB.  Apprentice is TFB and Transmute is a very quirky Remodel.

Doesn't quite work with Cornucopia either.  Remake doesn't speak much of variety.

Also not sure about Hinterlands.  I'd suggest JoaT as the staple trasher of the set, but it does nothing on gain.  Farmland could fit as it's an on-gain trasher, but it's in the Remodel family.

Hmm... thoughts?
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PSGarak

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 01:25:34 am »
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I would say that Steward is the trasher of Intrigue more than Masquerade is. It also fits more purely with the set theme of choice.

I'm on the fence about whether Bishop is a trasher or trash-for-benefit. Forge is also somewhat a trash-for-benefit, but can scrap multiple cards at a time. I don't feel it's powerful enough to be the stand-out card from Prosperity, but it is priced like one. (I think KC is the stand-out card from Prosperity.)

Since we've gone through Curses and Trashers, it might be worth taking a look at a few other families of cards. I'll take a stab at Terminal Draw, and Non-Terminal Draw. I think that Remodel-style Trash-For-Benefit cards end up being fairly unthematic (except Expand).

Terminal Draw

Smithy -- It draws cards.
Nobles, Courtyard -- Both involve a choice.
Wharf -- It's a duration, so it affects next turn.
[nil] -- Alchemy is an action-heavy set, so terminal draws are altogether unthematic. There are several big-draw cards, but all favor action decks.
[nil] -- I feel that Council Room belongs in Prosperity instead of base. It's the only "vanilla" draw that's bigger than a smithy, and it accelerates the game for everyone, in a similar fashion to Bishop and Vault. That said, it's not out of place in base.
Menagerie? -- It's not terminal, but it fits with the variety theme.
Embassy -- It has an on-gain effect.

Non-Terminal Draw

Laboratory -- It also draws cards, but in a less terminal fashion.
Wishing Well -- Interesting twist, with a heightened strategic element.
Tactician? Native Village? -- Both cards involve drawing a crapton of cards on one turn, by sacrificing draw on an earlier turn.
Alchemist, Scrying Pool -- Alchemist synergizes with potions, while Scrying Pools fits with the secondary theme of being action-heavy.
Level 2-3 City? -- Kinda hard to make a card that's a strict upgrade from Laboratory that isn't absurdly powerful. Arguably, Venture could fit this bill.
Hunting Party -- Very lab-like, but with the whole deck composition thing going on.
Stables -- Nothing on-gain about this, but it does interaction with treasure in a strange way, which is a more common mechanic for this set (IGG, Spice Merchant, Trader).
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AdamH

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 07:49:49 am »
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I realize there's probably you didn't include any of Gardens, Vineyards, Duke, or Silk Road (or even Colony/Platinum?), but I think one of the more interesting parts of Dominion is the idea that the objective isn't *always* to get the most provinces. Bishop/Goons are present, along with some other "minor" VP cards, which is a good start, but I think a vast majority of the games you play with these limited cards will revolve around provinces, and I think that means you're missing out on one of the more interesting facets of the game.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 08:50:28 am »
+3

Any relation to Arya?
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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 09:19:50 am »
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You can also do
Villages
Village
Mining village
Native Village
-
Worker's Village
Farming Village
Border Village

Workshop Variants
Workshop
Ironworks
Smugglers
University
Talisman
Horn of Plenty
Develop(?)

5-cost terminal draw attacks
Witch
Torturer
Ghost Ship
-
Rabble
-
Margrave

Alternate Victory Cards
Gardens
Great Hall/Harem/Nobles
Island
Vineyards
Colony (+chips)
Fairgrounds
Farmland/Silk Road

Tdog

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 09:40:48 am »
+1

Or you could group them by
Cards that make your friend rage quit dominion
Torturer chain
KC Masq Goons
KC Pawn
KC Cartagrapher
Long Scrying Pool Engine
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 09:44:03 am by Tdog »
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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 09:57:36 am »
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Cards that make your friend rage quit dominion
Torturer chain
KC Masq Goons
KC Pawn
KC Cartagrapher
Long Scrying Pool Engine

Curse-heavy games with no trashing, no possible economy buildup and forced discarders: Slow death.
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werothegreat

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 10:58:58 am »
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You can also do
Villages
Village
Mining village
Native Village
-
Worker's Village
Farming Village
Border Village

Workshop Variants
Workshop
Ironworks
Smugglers
University
Talisman
Horn of Plenty
Develop(?)

5-cost terminal draw attacks
Witch
Torturer
Ghost Ship
-
Rabble
-
Margrave

Alternate Victory Cards
Gardens
Great Hall/Harem/Nobles
Island
Vineyards
Colony (+chips)
Fairgrounds
Farmland/Silk Road

Ok, now you're getting into MY thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2920.0

Now, I'm biased, but if you're going to bring the Prosperity mats and tokens, you may as well bring Pirate Ship.

As for Alchemy, I'd recommend: Vineyard, Scrying Pool, University, Alchemist, Golem, Possession.
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werothegreat

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 11:00:03 am »
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Cards that make your friend rage quit dominion
Torturer chain
KC Masq Goons
KC Pawn
KC Cartagrapher
Long Scrying Pool Engine

Curse-heavy games with no trashing, no possible economy buildup and forced discarders: Slow death.

Also, who in their right mind KC's a Cartographer?
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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 11:07:06 am »
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You can also do
Villages
Village
Mining village
Native Village
-
Worker's Village
Farming Village
Border Village

Workshop Variants
Workshop
Ironworks
Smugglers
University
Talisman
Horn of Plenty
Develop(?)

5-cost terminal draw attacks
Witch
Torturer
Ghost Ship
-
Rabble
-
Margrave

Alternate Victory Cards
Gardens
Great Hall/Harem/Nobles
Island
Vineyards
Colony (+chips)
Fairgrounds
Farmland/Silk Road

Ok, now you're getting into MY thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2920.0

Now, I'm biased, but if you're going to bring the Prosperity mats and tokens, you may as well bring Pirate Ship.

As for Alchemy, I'd recommend: Vineyard, Scrying Pool, University, Alchemist, Golem, Possession.
I'm sort of laughing that you think I haven't read your thread. I disagree with how you segment things there, and I think what I posted here is apropos.

TonyStark

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Re: Cards that Best Represent Sets
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 12:12:06 am »
+1

Very cool, looking at the sets from the perspective of the various card types. I hadn't thought of it like that, but Cursers really do seem to tie most directly to the themes!

Any relation to Arya?
I get that a lot LOL. No relation, but I played my first game with her early on and we've been good friends since!
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