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Kirian

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IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« on: June 18, 2012, 02:49:22 pm »
0

Week 2 pairings are posted to their normal place at:

http://isodom.challonge.com

It took a little bit; Challonge bugged out when trying to remove a player from the last unplayed match... hopefully I won't have to reset the brackets again, but thankfully Challonge doesn't randomize...

Matches are best-of-five, but do not play a sixth if there is a draw (i.e. 2-2-1) at that point.

Match results are due by Monday 25 June at 06:00 EDT/10:00 GMT.  Finish your matches by Sunday, in other words, unless you plan to get up early Monday morning.  Note that due to the nature of a Swiss tournament, unplayed matches cannot be made up.  Rules about dropouts are in the signup thread.

Good luck!
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Young Nick

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 05:09:17 pm »
+1

Young Nick defeats pops 3-1 in 4 close games!

In general, the match was lots of fun. We both took our time making decisions, and discussed which openings we thought were best, even before the current games had ended. The set was dominated by Caravan and Masquerade; they both appeared in three of the four games.

Game 1: Young Nick 30 - 28 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Caravan, Jester. This game was a pretty typical Masquerade game. I opened with Caravan/Masquerade, compared to pops' Quarry/Masquerade. He never achieved his goal of hitting an early Forge, and for that I was grateful. Not too much was going on here, except for his Jester flipping a Gold and Estate. On the final turn, I passed him a dead Caravan and received a crucial Copper from him to allow me to buy a Province. It was a good example of not auto-piloting. If I had passed him a Copper instead, I would have been stuck at $7.

Game 2: pops 41 - Young Nick 33. Key cards: Ambassador, Tournament, Caravan, Ironworks, Apprentice. I would like to think that this one was much closer than the score indicated. He opened Ambassador/Tournament. I thought long and hard before going Ambassador/Ironworks. There are enough desirable targets for Ironworks that I figured it warranted a purchase, but in retrospect, it should not have been my opener. Caravan (for the +Cards) or Tournament (for the +$) seem logical. Having said that Caravan seems better because it's not like one of us was particularly likely to spike an early Province in the middle of an Ambassador war. As it turns out, he gets 2 Provinces before I get 1, and as a result takes Followers with the first successful Tournament/Province pairing. I get Trusty Steed soon after and it becomes a full-blown battle. With two Provinces left, I struggle to have the stones to break PPR on several occasions. Had I done so earlier, I easily could have won, but alas. A few misplays, like taking Diadem for reasons that I still do not understand, put me even further behind. I was too slow to purchase Saboteurs, which were my only chance at coming back (I needed them to hit his Provinces). This game seriously gives he headaches (especially the opening), and was quite heated in the moment.

Game 3: Young Nick 34 - 25 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Ill-Gotten Gains, Jester. This was another board with plenty of options. Do I go for the IGG rush? Nah, Masquerade can fend it off too well. Do I go Courtyard + BM? But then those IGG can screw me over. Do I mess around with Jester or can Masquerade just shrug it off? I figured that Masquerade/Caravan was the way to go, and then I would have to react to pops. He opened Masquerade/Silver, which I didn't really know how to read. As the game progressed, he picked up a turn 3 Jester and transitioned into a belated IGG rush. I was never too scared, though. I just picked up an extra Masquerade, and later a 3rd and was smoothly sailing from there. I flipped one of pops' IGG's with my Jester and bought one of my own, but other than that, my Masquerades, and a lone Jester of my own, I sticked to money and that was that. My economy was too strong considering pops gave me a few turns to ramp up before he started rushing me.

Game 4: Young Nick 59 - 45 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Colony, Jack of All Trades. This was a tough board to decide on the opening. Masquerade/Silver was the path I decided to follow. There were no worrisome attacks that necessitated my picking up Jack, and with Colonies out, Copper trashing seemed especially valuable. pops went for Jack/Silver and later told me that he wanted to do Jack/Masquerade but balked due to fear of collision. From there, he picked up a pair of Upgrades, which I figured was a very good decision, due to hand-size reduction and Copper trashing. Meanwhile, I intended on picking up a second Masquerade, but never really needed it. Some games you get super-duper lucky. Here are my buys, from turn 1: Silver, Masquerade, Silver, Gold, Gold, Gold, Platinum, Gold, Platinum, Platinum, Platinum, Colony, Colony, Colony, Colony, Province, Duchy, Colony. 18 turns, 5 Colonies, 59 Victory Points. It's sickening, how lucky I was. pops handled it like a champ, or at least better than I would have. What could he do? Not many strategies could compete with that.

These were four games that were lots of fun. The openings had me scratching my head each and every time. The last one looked like a blow out, but I suspect that game 3 was actually the most lopsided one (in terms of superior strategy) of the match. Comments and questions welcome, and thanks again pops!

 
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Eevee

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 06:06:43 pm »
+2

help im a bug beats MrEevee 3-2

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-140710-67256a11.html
minions and governors. bug goes for (imo) questionable scheme open and prefers governors over minions. i buy minions, minions win games.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-141647-50b9da7e.html
maybe the saddest game i've played in my life. if you like winning, dont try chancellor-stash in a colony game, especially if its going to take you until turn 9 to reach 5.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-142909-a75e8dc0.html
curse slog with witch, IGG, uppgrade and militia. idk what happened, i lose like i usually do. governor completely ignored by both players. his tactician was probably a smart buy, i didnt even notice it was on the kingdom.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-145015-6fc45b4c.html
didnt make me hate familiar any less than i did before (was a lot). oh well, back to playing 100% in veto mode and never seeing the card again (i guess i'll still leave it on when i'm almost sure its a trap).

apparently missed one log, dont remember the game so probably nothing too memorable.

props to bug for being a great opponent, super easy to arrange a time to play + nice and friendly games all the way through. didnt even laugh at me sucking all that much.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 07:04:19 pm by Eevee »
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cayvie

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 06:34:21 pm »
+1

Oh the scheme open in game 1 was awful; I didn't think how it would interact with an opponent playing Minions.

Game 2, I was pretty happy with Talisman as an opener (and, yes, even happier when I saw you were going for Stash).

Game 3, I think the Smugglers was key to my victory.

Game 4 was some city thing with a bunch of curses where you got more banks and so had a better economy.

Game 5, it would have been a luck-based blowout except that you were able to sneak in a Forge to give yourself a chance.

Good match :)
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popsofctown

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 07:41:35 pm »
0

My goal was not an IGG "rush" in game 3.  I started hitting 5$ when my terminal and dead draw ratios made me feel like I needed to buy a treasure, so I bought IGGs as a "Silver+", sort of like Venture.  I hit 5 a bunch, and since 6/3 splits would have fit my strategy better than 5/5's , I started hurting.  The late courtyard should suggest big money was my ideology.  Failing to get more underspent Courtyards was probably a bad thing, if I were to stick with big money, which might not be the best way of playing the set.

The games were really fun.  I disagree and feel that game 4 was the biggest gap in play quality.  You're draws were so good it might not have mattered too much what I did, but keeping Jack around for so long in a Colony game was a doomed failure.  On the other hand, I feel like on paper my strategy for game 3 should work sometimes.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 07:43:47 pm by popsofctown »
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Jorbles

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 09:50:48 pm »
+1

Jorbles: 3 vs. zxcvbn2: 0

Game 1:
Jorbles 36 vs. zxcvbn2 -100
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-180909-c5172229.html
Key Cards: Tactician, Bank, Baron, Horn of Plenty, Talisman, Treasure Map
zxcvbn2 had a late game disconnect, which is unfortunate. He still had a chance, but I had a 9 point lead at that point. We both ignored Treasure Map here, which actually was decent on this board. I went Tactician/Bank (with Horn of Plenty support) and he went Tactician/Baron, the strategies seemed to compare well though I could never get my Horn of Plenty up to the $5 that makes it useful. The game was pretty close when zxcvbn2 disconnected. I don't think he was totally out of it. He said he had a $4 hand and I had a $2 hand so neither one of us was going to buy a Province or Duchy and put pressure on our opponent. Not sure what would have happened if we'd kept on, but zxcvbn2 graciously didn't contest the win.

Game 2:
zxcvbn2 28 vs. Jorbles 40
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-181949-ae6baeb6.html
Key Cards: Ill-Gotten Gains, Smugglers, Governor
I was lucky to get this board from second player where Smugglers is pretty strong. We both opened Silver/Smugglers, but I think being 2p this helped me more than him. I thought Governor was a trap on this board, but zxcvbn2 went for it. This let me pick up some Golds with my Smugglers, which I normally would never have acquired on this board. I focused on the IGG rush mostly, only diverting from it when I had less than $5 or could afford a Province. I think I had more money in the early game because I got lucky and spiked a couple Provinces which gave me a big lead, that I managed to maintain. I think I got a bit lucky with my draws on this board, but I also don't think this was a great board to be buying Governors on.

Game 3:
zxcvbn2 33 vs. Jorbles 33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-182650-b0df0bef.html
Key Cards: Tactician, Smugglers, Tournament, Forge
A strong Tactician/Tournament board. I'm 2p again so I open Tournament/Smugglers; zxcvbn2 opens Tournament/Silver, which seems pretty solid. We both rush for Tacticians so we'll have an easier time lining up our first Provinces with a Tournament. My deck has a few more Tournaments in it, which gives me added cycling which lets me get to my reshuffle faster and I get to my Tactician to win the first Tournament a little quicker than him. zxcvbn2 has some terrible luck and doesn't line up his Tournament with a Province on his first Tactician opportunity having to settle for a Forge (which once the Followers are gone is actually probably superior to a Trusty Steed). My large amount of Tournaments was great in the early game, but in the midgame zxcvbn2 slows me down with Province reveals and he starts pulling ahead on Provinces. My Followers and using Tournaments for Duchies are keeping me in the game, but it's a very close tactical game at the end. In the end zxcvbn2 miscalculates and Forges a Gold and Estate into a Province thinking to end it on a tie, but forgetting that he was 1p. I win on the rare 2nd player advantage.

Best of luck in future games!

[Edit: put in scores.]
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:03:39 pm by Jorbles »
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ednever

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 12:34:04 am »
+1

ednever over Turkman 3-2

Here are the logs:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-201812-1bdbdf9e.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-203354-d422bd70.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-204655-be5db922.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-205513-aea59efc.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-211042-e965bd49.html

Quick commentary:

Game 1: Turkman
Masq, Spice Merchant, City, Expand, Colonies

Both of us trashed our decks down using Marchants and Masqs to tiny little things. Maybe too small. I passed Turk some good stuff on his Masq turns. I think T picking up a second Masq and going into Cities are what won him this game.

Game 2: ednever
Festival, Library, Possession, Colony (with Navigator and Trade Route)
Possession can be brutal on Colony kingdoms. I saw the Festival/Library Engine that I thought would let me play multiple Possessions per turn. I started with Navigator to speed up the cycling (thinking I would have lots of excess actions)
Turns out I didn't have as many actions as I thought, and I never did a double possession turn, but the navigator was great for getting me to possessions quickly. If I saw a Possession or a Festival/Library engine I didn't discard, otherwise I did. Turk tried to green early as soon as I got the first Possession, but it stopped him from getting his own Possession engine going. I ended up being able to buy from my deck and his.

Game 3: ednever
Fun Gardens game with lots of helpers. I would highly recommend this kingdom if you are looking for something interesting.
Horse Traders and Margraves gave extra buys. Horse Traders defended against the Margraves, Best use I've had for Secret Chambers (use them to draw Horse Traders, and then guarantee hands where you don't mind discarding stuff. There was a Young Witch here too that we both ignored.

Game 4: Turkman
Wharf+Worker's Village+(It doesn't matter)
There was Masquerade here too, but basically this was a rush to get the engine going. I thought I had a shot, but Turk saw the opening and emptied the Estate pile. Very well played on his part (me, not so much for providing that opening by picking up the last two Worker's Villages...)

Game 5: ednever
My favorite game. The initial Kingdom was a little perplexing - lots of potential interaction. I think I saw the risks better than Turk which helped me off the start. Then a second, well timed, Potion purchase took me over the top.

P Vineyards
$2 Chapel, Native Village
$2p Apothecary
$4 Island, Treasure Map, Sea Hag
$5 Festival, Ghost ship, Outpost

Sea Hag is powerful, but weaker with Chapel. Ghost Ship chains are brutal combined with Festival, but weakened considerably with Apothecary and Native Village.
But if you go Apothecary, you don't need Chapel.
Islands are a great mix with Vineyards, but there are no cheap actions other than Native Village and Chapel.
Both Apothecary and Vineyards need the extra buys - but the only option is Festival.

So lot's going on.

Like last week, I would love commentary from the super-stars out there on how they would play this one.

I ended up playing what I consider a pretty complicated pattern (open Potion-Chapel. Use Chapel to dissuade the Hag and kill the Estates. Use Apothecary to get Festivals, then load up on Festivals, Islands, Apothecary and Native Villages. At the same time when Turk didn't get a Chapel I picked up a Hag and used the fast cycling of the Apothecaries to hit him a ton). Then, when the +buys are flying, pick up a second potion and start diving into the Vineyards.

Seemed to work, but I would love thoughts on other ways to play it.


Thanks Turkman for the games and being accommodating to my Pacific Time schedule. Fun set!

Ed
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glengarry

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 08:44:53 am »
0

Glengarry defeats MAD Mergus 3-2, game 1 at bottom is only really interesting set.

#5: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-220933-fbf46d74.html
glengarry: 31 points - opening: Lookout / Jack of All Trades
 Mergus: 28 points - opening: Silver / Masquerade

unexceptional Jack set, i think we both drew fairly well to end it on round 14 (provis, of course), with my one apprentice powering out the winning province.

#4: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-220217-29da1577.html
Mergus: 37 points (5 Vineyards, opening: Talisman / Silver
glengarry: 17 points (3 Vineyards, opening: Talisman / Silver

thoroughly outplayed in goons / haven / pearldiver / talisman / youngwitch set (haven the bane card, and i got outbaned badly.  i bought talismans twice with my first two 4-buys and was able to grab triple youngwitch subsequently only down 2 curses, but Mergus was rushing the havens with his talisman by then, wound up well on top.

#3:  http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-214844-51640afd.html
Mergus: 45 points opening: Silver / Silver
glengarry: 8 points opening: Potion / Shanty Town

brutalized by big money in a golem / possession / shantytown / throne room set, he had mint on 5 and gold on 3 while i was twaddling with remodels and shanties.  i hit 5c, potion multiple times and never once got possession running.

#2  http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-214016-2bccb8f5.html
glengarry: 49 points    opening: Jack of All Trades / Silver
Mergus: 39 points  opening Jack of All Trades / Silver
i province on 9, 10 and 11 with just-what-i-needed-each-time Tribute draws and ride the advantage out through many rounds where Mergus had to duchy with province money and i was able to respond with hands of 5 and 6. 

#1: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-202557-5a156d98.html
glengarry: 47 points (6 Duchies, 3 Gardens [47 cards], 9 Estates, a Duke, and a Harem); 24 turns
           opening: Contraband / Copper           
[47 cards] 6 Workshops, 3 Gardens, 2 Contrabands, 1 Duke, 1 Harem, 19 Coppers, 9 Estates, 6 Duchies
Mergus: 38 points (5 Gardens [47 cards], 4 Harems, 5 Estates, a Duchy, and 2 Dukes); 23 turns
              opening: Contraband / nothing
[47 cards] 5 Gardens, 4 Harems, 4 Workshops, 3 Scouts, 2 Contrabands, 2 Dukes, 13 Coppers, 8 Silvers, 5 Estates, 1 Duchy

very proud of this one.  never played a set where contraband and opponent blocks workshops was clearly the right play, but Mergus did that to me in round 4 or so.  I was hammering coppers from the beginning and got rewarded in round 10 with 4c, workshop draw with only 2 gardens remaining.  after gardens were gone, i piled estates quickly with contraband multi-buy and was already up on duchies... Mergus had to buy harems instead of duchies to avoid piling and contraband decisions remained very interesting all game long.  He grabbed one of those scouts early and it really let him down, even with Harems to hit... i had 1 workshop most of the game and piled the remaining 5 to end it finally with my deck incapable of grabbing the remaining duchies and his deck incapable of catching me without buying duchies and piling it to end the game.


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nightdance

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 11:21:02 am »
0

nightdance wins over Smithe 3-0

Game 1: forgot to grab game log

Game 2:http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-073327-785963d5.html
Colony + Platinum Game
Grand Markets, Throne Rooms, Envoy, Shanty Town
Smithe took an early lead in money (Platinums) with 2 hits of throne room+envoy. He eventually goes too money heavy, greens too late, and loses to my golds, grand markets, and provinces. He could have easily won this one if he went for more provinces instead of platinums and more colonies instead of two other cards.
At the end:
me: 4 Grand Markets, 2 Throne Rooms, 1 Envoy, 1 Shanty Town, 10 Coppers, 1 Silver, 5 Golds, 4 Estates, 5 Provinces, 1 Colony
him: 3 Grand Markets, 2 Envoys, 1 Throne Room, 7 Coppers, 1 Silver, 3 Golds, 6 Platinums, 3 Estates, 3 Provinces, 1 Colony


Game 3:http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-074123-ed047424.html
At the end:
me: 2 Menageries, 1 Feast, 1 Haggler, 1 Ironworks, 7 Coppers, 3 Silvers, 5 Golds, 4 Estates, 5 Duchies, 5 Provinces
him: 2 Mints, 1 Library, 1 Smithy, 2 Coppers, 2 Silvers, 6 Golds, 3 Estates, 3 Duchies, 3 Provinces

Menagerie was good for me. Library was good for him. Just played big money better and greened earlier for the win. Ironworks into Feast into Duchy gave me the Duchy lead.

Basically Big Money games, and Smithe's mistake was greening too late.
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cayvie

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 02:49:54 pm »
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Fabian

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 03:03:23 pm »
0

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 03:08:09 pm by Fabian »
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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 04:13:56 pm »
+1

Stef 3 - 0 Fabian

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-113312-fe827e7c.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-114456-18a959a9.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-115831-c3cecb39.html

Some of the worst playing ever witnessed by man. Well early/mid game 1 is fine and game 3 is kinda fine I guess. But just, ugh. Super tilt.

Round 2 I got paired with Fabian. I still remember Fabian as 'the guy to beat' from before I quit isotropic for a few months. In february I was around level 46 and most of the time second to this annoying guy 2 levels above me. Well, the guy was ok but the 'two levels above' did all the annoyance. So even though I'm now 7 levels ahead of him, I still expected a rather difficult matchup.

We started the match and before me was one of the most complex random kingdoms I've yet encountered.  It was obviously engine walhalla, but with so many different combinations that it just hurts. Tournament with all the prizes, cities to power up by witch running out curses, caravan for draw and warehouse for cycling, goons for some megapoints and add grand market for extra fun. A bishop for some trashing and if you still can't find anything you like there's always the black market to try something sneaky.

There wasn't too much power in the black market, mainly because it was all on the board already. OK, I wanted to have the trashing-cards (masquerade, lookout), because bishop is just too much mutual-benefit in a game where these small amounts of points are not that relevant. Oh and lighthouse was in there, which would be dreamy-good on this board.

I decided I wanted a reliable deck at the start rather then a risky one, and opened tournament/warehouse. Fabian decided exactly the other way around with black market/tournament. I got lucky with 5 on turn 3 (playing both tournament and warehouse) where Fabian got quite the opposite (4 on both t3 and t4).

The next round of our decks we swapped luck rather dramaticly. I had to skip my warehouse to prevent all my cards from missing the shuffle, and he picked lighthouse right out of his first black market. It was his first turn >4, and he had to think a while before skipping witch for it. But despite of all my praying he got the lighthouse and a caravan.

From this point on things went downhill for me. I lost the curse split despite my early witch (grmbl lighthouse) and since I reached 8 way later then Fabian, he also got the first 3 prizes. He picked pricess first, which seemed like a good move to me. He also got the better half of the cities, which he then turned up to level 3.

I was losing this game slowly but steadily as Fabian got some of the trashers in his deck. Due to masquerade I no longer lost the curse split 6-4, it was now 7-3. The only surprising thing was that he waited a bit long before adding goons to his deck. And then he waited a bit longer. Not a real problem, because he was still quite seriously ahead on points (2 provs and those curses) but hey.

In the endgame, something must have just snapped on his side. I can't explain it any other way. On his turn 20, Fabian bought 4 estates out of the blue, but his lead was nowhere near big enough to justify that. On my turn 20 I said thank you and bought the other 4 (after playing 2 goons).


Game 2 contained Ill Gotten Gains, but it very clearly wasn't an IGG board (another strong curser, no +buy, good trashing). Fabian was still a bit dazzled by the previous endgame I think, and encouraged by his 5/2 opening went for it anyway. I just stayed away from IGG, duchy or any other remote possebility of 3-piling, and even before I bought my first province he resigned realizing his mistake.


Game 3 was a much more interesting game, involving fishing village, oracle, jester and perhaps tunnel. Menagerie could become powerfull later on, but with expand as only trashing that's not very easy. Haven and celler could support menagerie, which would make tunnel a lot better. I would definately have gone for the cheap cards if only there was a source of +buy, but alack, there was none.

I decided to try and get an expand in quickly, because I really like the potential of this set. So no early tunnels, no cellars, but fishing, oracle and jester asap. Fabian found himself back and seemed to come to the same conclusion, or at least he bought the same cards.

It was a fun game to play, and I think we both played it well. Except he made a small but important mistake on turn 5, where he let me keep 2 coppers. It probably was a lot more easy to see for me then it was for him, but that made me real happy and got me a second jester in stead of a reshuffle I didn't want.

After that I just held on to my small but increasing lead and steered to a clear 3-0. I know Fabian can do much better then this, so I guess I was a bit lucky to find him on such an off-day.
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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm »
+1

Obi Wan Bonogi defeats Robz888  (3-1-1)


Game 1: Draw
I could play this board all day, a lot of fun.  I take an agressive engine line by skipping over a silver on turn 3.  I'm not confident trading post was the best choice early here.  Looking back I think I would double up on ironworks and hammer more HP. I should have aimed at 4 highway(where I took 6) while contesting hunting party and hope to get 5 or 6 of those.  My intention wasnt to skip militia/bazaar but neither were a priority and it just worked out that I never picked them up.  I sucked it up and took the draw which was debatable, looking at Robz's final hand it seems I should have went for the win.  I am confident the ironworks line is superior(not sure about talisman) and that I just had a few missteps in execution.  I think aiming for a 3 prov turn is the way to go.   
Game 2: Obi
I was debating between island/farming vlg/remodel and opt for the remodel. Robz follows me with Monument.  Robz never sees the counting house potential.   I lose curses 6-4 but he sputters after that.
Game 3: Obi
Swindler/swindler is goofy.  I think rushing the prov is the way to go even though the risk of getting them turned into peddlers really sucks.
Game 4: Robz
I thought the pawn open would help me win the peddler race here but that didn't flush out as we split 5/5.  I was also greedy in skipping HP which proved to be very strong for Robz. 
Game 5: Obi
A dream board.  Felt confident early as I managed not to hit $3.  I would have skipped silver if I hit $3 though.  Using Baron/Moneylender for the first Grand Market and ramping up from there keeps it nice and clean. 


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Robz888

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 11:44:48 pm »
+1

Obi Wan Bonogi defeats Robz888  (3-1-1)


Game 1: Draw
I could play this board all day, a lot of fun.  I take an agressive engine line by skipping over a silver on turn 3.  I'm not confident trading post was the best choice early here.  Looking back I think I would double up on ironworks and hammer more HP. I should have aimed at 4 highway(where I took 6) while contesting hunting party and hope to get 5 or 6 of those.  My intention wasnt to skip militia/bazaar but neither were a priority and it just worked out that I never picked them up.  I sucked it up and took the draw which was debatable, looking at Robz's final hand it seems I should have went for the win.  I am confident the ironworks line is superior(not sure about talisman) and that I just had a few missteps in execution.  I think aiming for a 3 prov turn is the way to go.

This was certainly the game that merits the most discussion, and it also shows the limits of a player like me when compared to someone like Bonogi. I honestly had no idea what he was doing going Ironworks/Talisman on a Hunting Party board with no extra buys available. I kept thinking to myself, "Is there like an invisible Gardens pile somewhere?" And then I realize what he's doing--with the Highways, of course--and I must have cursed aloud. That said, he must have misplayed it somewhat--possibly with that Trading Post--for it to be close. And I got a fairly bad draw on my last turn to not be able to buy at least a Duchy. Really, with 6 HPs, I'm surprised I couldn't get that last Province, but I might have erred in getting Militia AND Jester. In fact, I almost certainly did.
   
Game 2: Obi
I was debating between island/farming vlg/remodel and opt for the remodel. Robz follows me with Monument.  Robz never sees the counting house potential.   I lose curses 6-4 but he sputters after that.

Definitely outplayed here. I simply overlooked Counting House. Should have gotten one instead of a third Mountebank.

Game 3: Obi
Swindler/swindler is goofy.  I think rushing the prov is the way to go even though the risk of getting them turned into peddlers really sucks.

He got a bit luckier with Swindler at the beginning and my deck was way slowed down. I didn't hit $5 for a long time.

Game 4: Robz
I thought the pawn open would help me win the peddler race here but that didn't flush out as we split 5/5.  I was also greedy in skipping HP which proved to be very strong for Robz. 

I'm happy with my play here, though we didn't diverge TOO wildly, and first player advantage may have been the main decider.

Game 5: Obi
A dream board.  Felt confident early as I managed not to hit $3.  I would have skipped silver if I hit $3 though.  Using Baron/Moneylender for the first Grand Market and ramping up from there keeps it nice and clean.

Really, I had the exact same plan, but it seems like I drew worse, and he was able to slow me down by flipping my Actions.

All in all, some fun sets. I know Obi Wan likes Prosperity and engines, so I was hoping for more boards that would favor my type of play, but... that's not how we improve, is it?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2012, 10:16:36 am »
0

Eevee:
Game 2: Chancellor/stash can still be pretty good in colony games, in a power vacuum. Is there enough of a power vacuum here? Hard to say. But you probably want to open chancellor/silver. That extra little bit of tempo isn't really that much on the reshuffle, and collision is huge, because you really need to get to 5 fast and lots. I'm actually sort of impressed by bug's play though. The talisman, not so much the chancellor, and who knew that such an engine was so good? I did not. But maybe it isn't? One game sample size... Hmm...

ednever:
Game 1: I find that masq is really really good against trashing, so this isn't SO surprising.
Game 2: I find that people can often get too scared of opposing possessions, and self-clog way too much. To be fair, he's behind there, but without the ability to get oodles of possessions himself, he just gives you a free hand. You've got to play a bit more normally, I think.
Game 3: Wow! I think Young Witch is sitting there, ripe for your taking. Probably one of those, and run. Also, I'd expect Jack to be strong enough here, and come back and steal some gardens when need be. I don't see really any strong enablers of gardens. HT does okay, but it's by no means stellar.
Game 4: I would think you'd just play Wharf/BM, maybe with a masq? You both way over-villaged, even for the engines though. I hate the village opening - you do want silver, as you need it for your economy, and the village does nothing for you right away, whereas silver does. Of course, the last 2 WVs has to be a pretty big mistake....
Game 5: The one you ask for comments on is the one I'd probably otherwise just leave be! Dunno that I'm a superstar, but... You have to go chapel. If you try to skip it for apothecary, the other player will hag you to death. I'd probably get a sea hag with it, though you can make a case for going treasure map. Probably I want a GS engine, which is a weak engine of course, but I want to try to get maps to go off at some point, probably. Early on, you have to be cognizant of running out of money. Obviously, you have to react to what your opponent does as well. Of course, you have decent GS mitigation here, but the thing I'm really worried about is the vineyards. How strong can they be? Well, it seems pretty strong. So maybe you have to go for that at some point, or at least try to block it some? You should be fine doing some kind of mix, with your engine, though.

-Stef- v Fabian:
Game 2: It sucks to get 5/2 here, but I think you've got to suck it up and open with your Hag anyway. Even though you only want one. But I think Fabian's bigger problem maybe even is going for duchies. Well, he's just going to stall too much, and he should actually have some chance of getting some provinces. Well, he's probably already pretty badly off....
Game 3 actually looks like a boring engine game to me. Strategy is more-or-less straightforward. But the thing I want to touch on is -Stef-'s comment about Fabian's turn 5 'mistake'. Thing is, I'm not sure it's a mistake. Sure, with what you see, it's better for you to have the coppers put back. But from what he sees, is that knowable? I'm much less sure. It might actually be a mistake here, but lots of times I see people label this stuff as a mistake when it actually isn't. You have to judge based on the knowledge known to the player making the decision, not on the knowledge known by anyone else.

OWB - Robz
Game 1, I think OWB pretty much nailed already. More ironworks, less trading post (which does pretty little for him), less talisman, only 4 highway. If the opportunity strikes, Militia and bazaar, but who knows if it will.
2: I don't get the remodel stuff here. Not that it's bad per se, but it always seems so weak in these early game situations to me. I'm surprised about missing CH, as this is THE classic situation where it shines. Probably OWB is a bit lucky to get this much of a blowout, but uh, yeah, the CH is good here.

Wizard of Woz

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2012, 10:48:17 am »
0

Hi all.  First long post, and I expect some formatting SNAFUs.  If so, let me know and I'll edit.  Anyway, on to the results. 

Wizard of Woz 3 - loes u 2

Game 1 - http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-144523-546b488e.html

Woz - 37 Loes u - 30
Witch, Jack, Familiar with some TFB (Forge and Salvager).  Close game where I inch ahead at the end.  I don't have much of an impression from this one, honestly.

Game 2

Loes u - 50 Woz - 37
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-143528-192c399f.html

She got started with the cursing early and my deck couldn't really get going.  I am still not sure how to handle that, and this will be even more obvious in game 4.

Game 3

Woz- 13 Loes u - 12
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-142314-8a98fec5.html

IGG race.  I open silver/HT, while she goes oracle/ht.  I win the curse split 7/3 as loes abandons IGG for dutchies when we were pretty close.  I am somehow able to consistently get Dutchies at the end, while she slows to estates.  Three piles - Curse, IGG, and Estates.  Pretty much, I win becasue I went first.

Game 4

Loes u -88 Woz 28
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-145804-9f6bf38a.html

At one point, I was behind something like 53-2.  Started getting cursed early.  Turns 5,6 and 8 I only had 2 copper, and was unable to do anything.  Loes, on the other hand, pretty much dominated me.  I started getting desperate and buying silly things.  Also, due to my lack of focus, thought that the fairgrounds was a farmland, and started buying them with no support.  I closed the gap by realizing this and buying estates and dutchies.  Losing by only 60 here was a miracle.  Around turn 8 I wanted to cry and hide under a rock.  Anyway, this leads us to the 5th and final game.

Game 5

Woz 36 - Loes u 22
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-150320-50f66ce8.html

I see Vault, with Spice Merchant and Stables and I figure that its going to be a quick one.  I got out a little faster, and ride the Vault to a victory.  Had the starting order been switched, I am not sure I would still have won. 

After a bit of a miscommunication about the starting time (becoming a theme for me), we finished in about 40 minutes.  Loes u was a great competitor. 

Any input would be appreciated, but I am not sure my strategies can be fixed or tweaked by a paragraph.

[edit - posted game logs]
[edit 2 - changed the gender on pronouns that referred to my opponent]
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 01:14:57 pm by Wizard of Woz »
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jmieden

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 10:49:33 am »
0

SpajderDzerusalem v. jmieden TIE (2-2-1)

Game 1 (SpajderDzerusalem 36, jmieden 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-160353-a8036c05.html

He goes with an excellent Scrying Pool deck enabled by Trade Routes and Jesters; I made a Frankenstein deck with a bunch of random crap trying to do something cool with scry pool and big tactician hands. It actually ended up being ok, but SD had such a good deck by the time my deck started doing anything interesting that it wasn't even close.

Game 2 (SpajderDzerusalem 42, jmieden 42)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-160924-c600eb3f.html

I went Big Money in this one with a Monument early, then adding a Rabble and another Monument later. SD goes for a deck with emphasis on cycling (I think) with Warehouse, Remake, Bazaar and some lighthouses to protect himself. Mostly just a BM game that ended square. I'm not sure if SD was planning to go for the tie, but it worked out that way. Close game all the way.

Game 3 (jmieden 42, SpajderDzerusalem 29)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-162400-b0e9b772.html

He pulled Montebank and Margrave early from the Black Market deck and that subdued my deck for a little while, but I kept plugging away with a simple Vault BM strategy that provided enough stability to keep me consistently 5+. I got Sea Hag from the Black Market to mitigate the curses and a Tunnel from the Black Market (with Vault, Warehouse and Hamlet to discard) and Hoard to stabilize my cash flow and ended up winning this one rather handily.

Game 4 (SpajderDzerusalem 30, jmieden 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-162828-19db21a0.html

This was an exceedingly close Witch BM game. He got the Witch first and often early and we split 7-3. The finish was particularly exciting as I was down 7 points and had 8 coins and 1 province left, but had to settle for duchy. That left him open to take the game. Good, strong play by SD had him winning this one.

Game 5 (jmieden 67, SpajderDzerusalem 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-163953-5d47beab.html

Colony engine board. We both started 5/2, and I opened Rabble/Cellar while he opened Sea Hag/Cellar. I used the Rabble to get me to 5 often early and got the lion's share of the Cities and another Rabble as well as an Apprentice. I used Apprentice to get rid of my silvers, curses and lone sea hag and keep my good hands stable. Once City and Curse were out, the stage was set for a huge City Rabble Apprentice engine that got off the ground faster than SD's engine. I took 5 colonies and a province in the last two turns to win this.

Overall (SpajderDzerusalem 2, jmieden 2, tie 1)
Fantastic set of games- SD is a great opponent and would have probably beat me if it hadn't been so late in his time zone compared to mine. I was thankful to compete and would not be disappointed if the rest of my IsoDom games were this close. :)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 10:50:07 am »
0

Wizard of Woz, one big big thing: You only put one log :)

Wizard of Woz

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 11:11:50 am »
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Fixed that.  Sorry
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lespeutere

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 11:22:19 am »
+1

and she's a she ;)
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Wizard of Woz

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 11:51:02 am »
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@ Lespeutere - Was that to me?  I will fix the gender, but wasn't sure if you were talking to me.
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PerdHapley

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 01:06:04 pm »
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perdhapley beats BadAssMutha 3 - 0.


Game 1: PH 43 - BAM 35 Key Cards: Witch, Caravan, Hunting Party, Silk Road
This was entirely luck-decided - I opened 5/2 with Witch out. I make some mistakes (my 1st Caravan should be a Silver, hit Provinces too early) but not enough for BAM to recover from that lopsided start.
Game 2: BAM 35 - PH 41 Key Cards: Tunnel, Golem, Fool's Gold
He goes for FG, I go the Golem/Tunnel route and get my first Golem nice and early, on turn 3. I go overboard on Tunnels and slow down a bit towards the end, making this the most closely contested game of the set. I think Golem/Tunnel is the right move here, but 3-4 tunnels is probably plenty.
Game 3: BAM 19 - PH 36 Key Cards: Remake, Lighthouse, Native Village, Militia, Nobles
Another one with much different openings - he goes for Ambassador and I opt for Lighthouse/Remake, with plans to grab a Militia quickly and fully shut his plan down. There are just too many cards that sink Ambassador here, and by the time BAM abandons it it's already a bit too late, and NV/Nobles with Salvager support works nicely for chewing through Provinces.
Thanks for the games, BadAssMutha, and I hope you have better luck in the next round!
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lespeutere

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 02:06:37 pm »
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@ Lespeutere - Was that to me?  I will fix the gender, but wasn't sure if you were talking to me.

Yes, it was. You couldn't really know, of course.
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Jorbles

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Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 03:49:05 pm »
+1

Game 2: BAM 35 - PH 41 Key Cards: Tunnel, Golem, Fool's Gold
He goes for FG, I go the Golem/Tunnel route and get my first Golem nice and early, on turn 3. I go overboard on Tunnels and slow down a bit towards the end, making this the most closely contested game of the set. I think Golem/Tunnel is the right move here, but 3-4 tunnels is probably plenty.

You probably shouldn't have bought the Fishing Village in this game. I can see the benefit of buying Hamlet (+Buy, the possibility of discarding Tunnels from your hand, and if you happen to dead draw your Golems together +Actions), but Fishing Village only slows your Golems down causing them to hit less Tunnels. I can see why you would, it's hard to turn down that card, but your deck really didn't need lots of actions. Aside from that the only thing I would have done differently from you is try to get a Salvager. All those free Golds make trash for benefit really strong. I don't think having 7 Tunnels hurt you much, it slows you down a bit, but it helps in the tie breaker.
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