Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: Trader  (Read 28429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 09:05:15 pm »
+1

Of course I just log onto Goko and play a game where I can use highways to reduce card costs to zero, letting the trader trash everything out without gaining silvers. setting up a throne-nomad camp-highway finish. I'm guessing that isn't a common use for a trader.
Logged

RD

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 93
  • Respect: +70
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 12:32:36 am »
0

The discussion so far has centered on using Trader exclusively in Money games or as a defense against Curse-givers.  I feel this doesn't fully capture some of the intricacies of this card.  In particular, one item I think is absent from this discussion is trash-for-benefit cards.  Apprentice clearly comes to mind. 

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1887
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 01:13:17 pm »
0

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?

Not every kingdom has Lab, though; you have to use the tools you're given, and sometimes the only draw engine will be Apprentice.
Logged

dudeabides

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 138
  • Shuffle iT Username: dudeabides
  • Respect: +136
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 10:07:05 pm »
0

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?

Not every kingdom has Lab, though; you have to use the tools you're given, and sometimes the only draw engine will be Apprentice.

Indeed, Apprentice trashing Silver is only a +1 card net gain, but if the three cards you draw have an expected value of greater than $2, then you have a net gain.

Edit:  I'm just suggesting that Trader has a place beyond a money game in some kingdoms.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:08:52 pm by dudeabides »
Logged
jsh357: the dude doesn't need to explain himself

Asklepios

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 394
  • Respect: +117
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2013, 12:51:25 pm »
0

I'd also say trader works well on the remodeller cards, such as Upgrade, Remake, Develop.

I've found that the two problems with those cards is that sometime  you don't have anything good at a $ level to move into, and that you often end up with hands of $2 or less. Trader helps both those situations.

One combo (which may be a nombo) I think might work on mid-strength kingdoms is Develop-Trader. I find Develops real weak point is when you Develop a $3 card, as you often end up having to stack an Estate. With Trader in there you could stack a Trader and a Silver, and Trade the Silver next turn, or if Develop and Trader don't collide, a Trader and Estate, and Trade the Estate next turn. Not sure how smooth this would be, but I reckon it could work.

I don't think its a complete strategy on its own, but if you start mixing in other decent cards to Develop into, it could start to click.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9192
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2013, 01:03:38 pm »
+1

I'd also say trader works well on the remodeller cards, such as Upgrade, Remake, Develop.

I've found that the two problems with those cards is that sometime  you don't have anything good at a $ level to move into, and that you often end up with hands of $2 or less. Trader helps both those situations.

One combo (which may be a nombo) I think might work on mid-strength kingdoms is Develop-Trader. I find Develops real weak point is when you Develop a $3 card, as you often end up having to stack an Estate. With Trader in there you could stack a Trader and a Silver, and Trade the Silver next turn, or if Develop and Trader don't collide, a Trader and Estate, and Trade the Estate next turn. Not sure how smooth this would be, but I reckon it could work.

I don't think its a complete strategy on its own, but if you start mixing in other decent cards to Develop into, it could start to click.

You cannot stack a Trader and a Silver.  You Develop a $3 card, gaining Trader and say Estate, topdecking them.  If you reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead of an Estate, then the card will not be top-decked.  So you only topdeck Trader, and the Silver you gain through Trader goes to your discard like any normal gain.
Logged

Asklepios

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 394
  • Respect: +117
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2013, 08:20:50 am »
0

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

Playing around on solo isotropic I have a lot of trouble making Trader/Develop work in any meaningful way. With no other cards going, it works out around 25 turns for 8 provinces, and 18-19 turns for 4 provinces, which seems pretty weak.

I think there might be room for Trader/Develop in the context of other good cards to develop to though, maybe a kingdom with Stables or Laboratory and no $2 card.
Logged

Fragasnap

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 440
  • Respect: +703
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2013, 09:01:32 am »
0

The final place case where Trader can shine is with cards that give on-buy benifit, such as Border Village, Ill-Gotten Gains, etc.
While it does have some interesting effects with on-buy cards, I'm afraid only Farmland, Goons, Haggler, Hoard, Hovel, Mint, and Talisman yield any sort of effect from this "buy canceling."
Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains incur their bonus when you gain them-- which you never do when you reveal a Trader.
Furthermore, Trader quite effectively shuts down Ill-Gotten Gains because if any other player avoids even a single Curse by revealing a Trader, piling-out Ill-Gotten Gains won't pile-out the Curses.
Logged
Dominion: Avarice 1.1a, my fan expansion with "in-games-using-this" cards and Edicts (updated Oct 18, 2021)

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2013, 11:02:34 am »
+1

The final place case where Trader can shine is with cards that give on-buy benifit, such as Border Village, Ill-Gotten Gains, etc.
While it does have some interesting effects with on-buy cards, I'm afraid only Farmland, Goons, Haggler, Hoard, Hovel, Mint, and Talisman yield any sort of effect from this "buy canceling."
Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains incur their bonus when you gain them-- which you never do when you reveal a Trader.
Furthermore, Trader quite effectively shuts down Ill-Gotten Gains because if any other player avoids even a single Curse by revealing a Trader, piling-out Ill-Gotten Gains won't pile-out the Curses.

He's not saying to gain a silver instead.  He's saying to trader your BV and gain 6 silvers later on.
Logged
A man on a mission.

Khyad Halda

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2013, 12:28:42 pm »
0

It combos with cache quite nicely, and gardens maybe even better than duke.

The combo with Embargo might be even better.
Logged

manthos88

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
  • Respect: +43
    • View Profile
Re: Trader
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2013, 06:23:36 am »
0

I don't understand why you didn't mention the alternate Victory card "Feodum" from Dark Ages, with which Trader makes a MORE THAN obvious combination.... :D

What does Feodum want? A Deck full of Silvers. Is there any better card than Trader for this job?? I don't think so...

Also, consider using Trader to trash a Feodum for 7 Silvers.... WOW... :D
Logged
Just give me a mega-turn engine and take my soul...

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11851
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12941
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Trader
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2013, 07:14:35 am »
+5

I don't understand why you didn't mention the alternate Victory card "Feodum" from Dark Ages, with which Trader makes a MORE THAN obvious combination.... :D
Might have something to do with the fact that this was written before Dark Ages was released.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 21 queries.