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Author Topic: Trader  (Read 27124 times)

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DG

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Re: Trader
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 09:05:15 pm »
+1

Of course I just log onto Goko and play a game where I can use highways to reduce card costs to zero, letting the trader trash everything out without gaining silvers. setting up a throne-nomad camp-highway finish. I'm guessing that isn't a common use for a trader.
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RD

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Re: Trader
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 12:32:36 am »
0

The discussion so far has centered on using Trader exclusively in Money games or as a defense against Curse-givers.  I feel this doesn't fully capture some of the intricacies of this card.  In particular, one item I think is absent from this discussion is trash-for-benefit cards.  Apprentice clearly comes to mind. 

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Trader
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 01:13:17 pm »
0

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?

Not every kingdom has Lab, though; you have to use the tools you're given, and sometimes the only draw engine will be Apprentice.
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dudeabides

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Re: Trader
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 10:07:05 pm »
0

Apprenticing Silvers is pretty weak sauce. It's like, wouldn't you rather have played a Lab or a Stables? Unless you really wanted to be rid of that Silver, but then why were you playing Trader in the first place? Lab and Stables are fine cards and all but it's not such a great day for Apprentice when it's outclassed by these.

Apprenticing your Trader after you've gotten some use out of it might be nice, but Silver bloat is likely to keep your Apprentice away from better targets (including the Trader) so is it worth it?

Not every kingdom has Lab, though; you have to use the tools you're given, and sometimes the only draw engine will be Apprentice.

Indeed, Apprentice trashing Silver is only a +1 card net gain, but if the three cards you draw have an expected value of greater than $2, then you have a net gain.

Edit:  I'm just suggesting that Trader has a place beyond a money game in some kingdoms.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:08:52 pm by dudeabides »
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Asklepios

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Re: Trader
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2013, 12:51:25 pm »
0

I'd also say trader works well on the remodeller cards, such as Upgrade, Remake, Develop.

I've found that the two problems with those cards is that sometime  you don't have anything good at a $ level to move into, and that you often end up with hands of $2 or less. Trader helps both those situations.

One combo (which may be a nombo) I think might work on mid-strength kingdoms is Develop-Trader. I find Develops real weak point is when you Develop a $3 card, as you often end up having to stack an Estate. With Trader in there you could stack a Trader and a Silver, and Trade the Silver next turn, or if Develop and Trader don't collide, a Trader and Estate, and Trade the Estate next turn. Not sure how smooth this would be, but I reckon it could work.

I don't think its a complete strategy on its own, but if you start mixing in other decent cards to Develop into, it could start to click.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Trader
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2013, 01:03:38 pm »
+1

I'd also say trader works well on the remodeller cards, such as Upgrade, Remake, Develop.

I've found that the two problems with those cards is that sometime  you don't have anything good at a $ level to move into, and that you often end up with hands of $2 or less. Trader helps both those situations.

One combo (which may be a nombo) I think might work on mid-strength kingdoms is Develop-Trader. I find Develops real weak point is when you Develop a $3 card, as you often end up having to stack an Estate. With Trader in there you could stack a Trader and a Silver, and Trade the Silver next turn, or if Develop and Trader don't collide, a Trader and Estate, and Trade the Estate next turn. Not sure how smooth this would be, but I reckon it could work.

I don't think its a complete strategy on its own, but if you start mixing in other decent cards to Develop into, it could start to click.

You cannot stack a Trader and a Silver.  You Develop a $3 card, gaining Trader and say Estate, topdecking them.  If you reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead of an Estate, then the card will not be top-decked.  So you only topdeck Trader, and the Silver you gain through Trader goes to your discard like any normal gain.
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Asklepios

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Re: Trader
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2013, 08:20:50 am »
0

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

Playing around on solo isotropic I have a lot of trouble making Trader/Develop work in any meaningful way. With no other cards going, it works out around 25 turns for 8 provinces, and 18-19 turns for 4 provinces, which seems pretty weak.

I think there might be room for Trader/Develop in the context of other good cards to develop to though, maybe a kingdom with Stables or Laboratory and no $2 card.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Trader
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2013, 09:01:32 am »
0

The final place case where Trader can shine is with cards that give on-buy benifit, such as Border Village, Ill-Gotten Gains, etc.
While it does have some interesting effects with on-buy cards, I'm afraid only Farmland, Goons, Haggler, Hoard, Hovel, Mint, and Talisman yield any sort of effect from this "buy canceling."
Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains incur their bonus when you gain them-- which you never do when you reveal a Trader.
Furthermore, Trader quite effectively shuts down Ill-Gotten Gains because if any other player avoids even a single Curse by revealing a Trader, piling-out Ill-Gotten Gains won't pile-out the Curses.
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Powerman

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Re: Trader
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2013, 11:02:34 am »
+1

The final place case where Trader can shine is with cards that give on-buy benifit, such as Border Village, Ill-Gotten Gains, etc.
While it does have some interesting effects with on-buy cards, I'm afraid only Farmland, Goons, Haggler, Hoard, Hovel, Mint, and Talisman yield any sort of effect from this "buy canceling."
Border Village and Ill-Gotten Gains incur their bonus when you gain them-- which you never do when you reveal a Trader.
Furthermore, Trader quite effectively shuts down Ill-Gotten Gains because if any other player avoids even a single Curse by revealing a Trader, piling-out Ill-Gotten Gains won't pile-out the Curses.

He's not saying to gain a silver instead.  He's saying to trader your BV and gain 6 silvers later on.
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Khyad Halda

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Re: Trader
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2013, 12:28:42 pm »
0

It combos with cache quite nicely, and gardens maybe even better than duke.

The combo with Embargo might be even better.
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manthos88

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Re: Trader
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2013, 06:23:36 am »
0

I don't understand why you didn't mention the alternate Victory card "Feodum" from Dark Ages, with which Trader makes a MORE THAN obvious combination.... :D

What does Feodum want? A Deck full of Silvers. Is there any better card than Trader for this job?? I don't think so...

Also, consider using Trader to trash a Feodum for 7 Silvers.... WOW... :D
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Awaclus

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Re: Trader
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2013, 07:14:35 am »
+5

I don't understand why you didn't mention the alternate Victory card "Feodum" from Dark Ages, with which Trader makes a MORE THAN obvious combination.... :D
Might have something to do with the fact that this was written before Dark Ages was released.
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