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Author Topic: Attack with estates  (Read 1991 times)

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Dr Who

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Attack with estates
« on: June 27, 2012, 12:41:23 pm »
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Hi everyone, I really appreciate other posters' feedback on my ideas (I'm sure you all have a lot more experience of the game than I do). I have this idea which was inspired by bureaucrat, where vicotry cards hurt the player:

Bureaucracy - cost $5 - action/attack card

+2 actions (or +$2?)

Each other player places a victory-only card on top of his deck (or reveals a hand containing no such cards). Then place an estate card from the supply on top of his deck.

Set-up: give the estate deck the same number of cards as the curse deck [I know this wouldn't always be possible if you only had one set of game cards]

I wasn't sure how to phrase 'vicotry-only', but I didn't want to include harem or nobles in this. The reason being that in this case the attack cannot (or can hardly ever) hurt another player's next turn, but would hit their subsequent turn. I'm not sure whether to include +2 actions or +$2 or what but I mainly wondered what you thought of an estate attack?
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rinkworks

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 02:42:34 pm »
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The trouble with an attack like that -- albeit a fixable one -- is that if you build a deck that can play multiples every turn, you completely shut out your opponents.  So lets say you play it twice, and your opponent puts back two Provinces and gains two Estates to put on top too.  That means that player's next turn will consist of at least 80% dead cards.  So he probably can't do anything with that turn.  Then you play two or even three more on your next turn, and you wipe out your opponent's NEXT turn as well.  Meanwhile, you're choking him with Estates, which only increases the chance that there will be extra green cards to have to put back.  With Throne Room or King's Court on the board, the problem is exponentially worse.

Bureaucrat is very cleverly balanced, avoiding this particular possibility for total shutdown with its "Gain a silver" clause.  If the attacker has to add Silvers to his deck, that means it'll become harder and harder to be able to play multiple Bureaucrats per turn and continually wipe out your opponents' turns.

Sea Hag sidesteps this danger in a different way.  This is a card that causes opponents to gain a Curse card to the top of their decks, where it will sting the next turn.  To avoid multiple plays of Sea Hags stacking 5 Curses on top of the deck, thereby wiping out a full turn, it has a clause saying that the victim should discard the top card of his deck.  Thus, if two Sea Hags get played in a row, the second takes the first's Curse off the top and throws it in the discard pile.

Anyway, it's an interesting thought, having a spamming attack that dishes out Estates instead of Curses.  It could be really interesting, in that the junking hurts a deck, but an imbalance of too many Estates might be a difficult point deficit to overcome.  It just has to be done in a way that wouldn't be liable to shut an opponent down for multiple turns in a row.
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Robz888

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 02:43:12 pm »
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That would be a brutally powerful Attack, I suspect, because it does stack considerably. Playing it a bunch of times would totally ruin the person's next hand--and it also makes the player's next hand even more ripe for the first half of the Attack. You could really pin people effectively this way. +$2 is generally probably stronger than +2 actions, but here the extra Actions just open you up to play more Bureaucracy. And as I said, the attack stacks. So... this looks to me to be too strong. You are putting 2 dead cards into your opponent's next hand. The brutally powerful Sea Hag only puts 1 dead card into the opponent's next hand, even when stacked, and provides no benefit to the person who played it.

So I think this is too strong.
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Robz888

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 02:43:58 pm »
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And.... rinkworks beats me to it by half a minute.
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AJD

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 03:03:55 pm »
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Also, Estate-distributing attacks in general would presumably fizzle fairly fast—there are fewer Estates in the supply than Curses.
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jonts26

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 03:06:56 pm »
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Especially true for mulitple players. 2p and 3p have 4 estates per person. 4p only has 3 per person.
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rinkworks

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2012, 03:12:05 pm »
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The card does say that you'd put out more Estates when using it.  If you've got Base + Intrigue, that's doable enough.
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AJD

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 03:13:48 pm »
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I totally missed that. Sorry, my mistake.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Attack with estates
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 08:23:41 pm »
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What about if the attack just gained your opponent Estates to the top of their deck. It has synergy with Bureaucrat and it would only be able to be used a small number of times. The non-attack part of the card could be Horse Trader-ish. +3 coin. Discard 2 cards from your hand. Estates are easier for your opponent  to deal with because of Baron, Upgrade, Scout, Remake, Apprentice, Salvager, Expand and Forge.
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