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Author Topic: Which Cards are the least fun?  (Read 20376 times)

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jonts26

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2012, 01:35:52 pm »
+2

Very unlikely I pick walled village over other $4 villages. But I like that it exists because it makes it more likely that the kingdom will contain some sort of village, thus making engines more likely.
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Dsell

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2012, 04:18:55 pm »
+1

This is a tough question for me because I think it really depends on the context. IRL, I am competitive but I don't mind some swinginess and randomness that can lead to one player getting way out ahead (hey, when it's me I get to gloat about my domination!) but these are precisely the cards I don't like on isotropic, in such a purely competitive environment. So for isotropic, two of the cards that frustrate me the most are Black Market and Tournament. Sure they're great when you get the good stuff, but we all know how "they have a province already???" and "they are blocking all of my tournaments and I haven't blocked any of theirs" feel.

That said, if I had picked these up IRL before I found isotropic, I think they would be some of my absolute favorites. They just add such a flavor to the game and (especially w/BM) really can give the game EVEN MORE variety. And that's one of my absolute favorite things about the game.
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O

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2012, 08:33:38 pm »
+1

Walled village crushes mining and worker's village in torturer games
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AJD

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2012, 12:39:18 am »
+3

I don't like my cards too anisotropic

"I like my Dominion cards the way I like my Dominion games: isotropic."
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Fragasnap

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2012, 09:58:14 am »
+3

Possession is the most ill-conceived card in all of Dominion.
You wanted to build an engine that will consistently draw your deck? Too bad: Possession. You wanted to set up a megaturn to buy all the Provinces at once? Too bad: Possession. You wanted to work a double Tactician deck? Too bad: Possession. Thought it might be fun to try Apothecary/Native Village? Too bad: Possession.
Instead, you have to hope some good discarding\cursing Attacks or VP gainers are available or else just cross your fingers. And don't even get me started with Throne Rooms and King's Courts. Why there isn't a multiple turn clause on Possession as Outpost is entirely beyond me.

Possession is the primary reason that I did not, have not, and will not buy Dominion: Alchemy.
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Khyad Halda

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2012, 05:52:33 pm »
+4

Possession is the most ill-conceived card in all of Dominion.
You wanted to build an engine that will consistently draw your deck? Too bad: Possession. You wanted to set up a megaturn to buy all the Provinces at once? Too bad: Possession. You wanted to work a double Tactician deck? Too bad: Possession. Thought it might be fun to try Apothecary/Native Village? Too bad: Possession.

This is exactly why Possession is interesting.  If there is a strong engine combo on the board, it is often part of a dominant strategy, but Possession nudges you slightly in the direction of greening early making the decision a lot more difficult and making the game quite different than if Possession were not on the board.

It can change a game significantly even if neither player touches it.  If I make the adjustments necessary I am normally very happy when my opponent buys possession since they will often see a hand full with at least one Duchy.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2012, 02:09:53 pm »
+1

This is exactly why Possession is interesting.  If there is a strong engine combo on the board, it is often part of a dominant strategy, but Possession nudges you slightly in the direction of greening early making the decision a lot more difficult and making the game quite different than if Possession were not on the board.

It can change a game significantly even if neither player touches it.  If I make the adjustments necessary I am normally very happy when my opponent buys possession since they will often see a hand full with at least one Duchy.
Interesting? That wasn't my argument. My argument is that Possession discourages every other fun strategy in the game. Possession forces players to buy victory points early thereby forcing them to wade around in the greening phase far too long for a single game of Dominion to be fun.
This is mitigated somewhat on isotropic simply because we don't have to fiddle with real cards-- but in real life games, greening early on Duchies becomes a complete slog that every player wishes would come to an end.
My argument isn't that Possession is uninteresting: My argument is that Possession is an ill-conceived card on the grounds that it is not fun to play with.
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popsofctown

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2012, 06:36:59 pm »
0

I'd say isotropic mitigates it a heck ton.  Isotropic moves as fast as the players make decisions.
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Asklepios

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2012, 07:24:58 am »
0

I actually really LIKE Possession and Saboteur, as neither of these cards are strong cards as such, but both can change the way you have to look at a kingdom.

I'd agree about Tournament, however. It seems too luck based 90% of the time, even if there is some strategy in how you get the first province, etc. Followers with no other cursers is one half of it, but the other half is the annoyance of the blocking effect of an opponent's province-in-hand, which basically is something almost entirely luck based, and something you can do very little about.
Yes, there's definitely a skill factor in tournament (like manipulating deck density, working the draws, knowing when to duchy, etc.) but I still find the card too swingy for my tastes.
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iangoth

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2012, 06:56:46 pm »
0

I like possession and saboteur, too, and not necessarily only when I'm the one playing them. Earlier today, I played BM + smithy + apprentice against a strong opponent's stable + throne room + saboteur engine. It was really quite exciting trashing my own provinces to draw most of my deck and run down the province pile before he could totally smash my deck to bits. Admittedly, both possession and saboteur suffer from the problem that in certain situations they can completely take the opponent out of the game, either by forcing them to sit through possessed turn after possessed turn or by reducing their deck to rubble. I have no problem with resigning when I know I'm beat, though, so this really doesn't bother me too much.

Actually, the card I hate the most is lookout. It's Russian roulette virtually every time you play it past the first, and the fact that the odds are low of lookout doing serious damage when used responsibly just increases the outrage when you inevitably draw gold-gold-mountebank.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:12:03 pm by iangoth »
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gorlock

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2012, 04:46:00 pm »
0

I hate Tournament so much it would be a crime to mention any other card in the same breath. It... is... so... random.

Agreed. It's near the top of my list of "always veto" cards.

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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2012, 05:15:07 pm »
+1

I hate the cards that make games into a one dimensional races.  Cards that combo with themselves too well. Minion, FG, IGG. A card that just wants to play with itself - isn't that the definition of wanking?

You might expect me to hate Sea Hags, but I've grown to appreciate them.  They make a slower game, but then the curses are out - and there's a potential for strategy to be had there. A different game, but still a challenging one.

And, for some bizarre reason, I just love swindler.
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2012, 05:23:50 pm »
0

This is exactly why Possession is interesting.  If there is a strong engine combo on the board, it is often part of a dominant strategy, but Possession nudges you slightly in the direction of greening early making the decision a lot more difficult and making the game quite different than if Possession were not on the board.

It can change a game significantly even if neither player touches it.  If I make the adjustments necessary I am normally very happy when my opponent buys possession since they will often see a hand full with at least one Duchy.
Interesting? That wasn't my argument. My argument is that Possession discourages every other fun strategy in the game. Possession forces players to buy victory points early thereby forcing them to wade around in the greening phase far too long for a single game of Dominion to be fun.
This is mitigated somewhat on isotropic simply because we don't have to fiddle with real cards-- but in real life games, greening early on Duchies becomes a complete slog that every player wishes would come to an end.
My argument isn't that Possession is uninteresting: My argument is that Possession is an ill-conceived card on the grounds that it is not fun to play with.

Not at all - just *some* strategies.  But how is that different from any other attack that is countered, or a strategy disrupted by attacks?  Your unstoppable Alchemist or Treasury stacks - Militia'd and Minion'd.  You wanted to build a torturer chain - but there's lighthouse.  You wanted to ghostship me?  I've got Farming Village, or menagerie.  You wanted to ambassador my deck full of crud?  Trader, or Watchtower. 

And not all strategies are prevented.  VP chips are all yours.  A deck built around attacks can be un-possessable.

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Tombolo

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2012, 05:46:22 pm »
0

Pirate ship, full stop.  I realize that it's not THAT good a card, but I've had one too many games where there was no invisible money and it just turned into "pirate ship engine destroys your economy lol"  I can't win with it, I can't beat it, and it just makes things tedious when it's done well.

I actually kind of like swinginess, so the usual suspects don't bother me much.  I do sometimes get annoyed with Possession, though, and sometimes Scrying Pool just because my friend likes to kick my butt with it.
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Autumn

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2012, 05:54:49 pm »
0

Tournament is one of my five favourite cards. I really don't find it all that luck-based at all. And spamming Tournaments is often a bad idea: going for silvers instead will often help you push to a Province faster, and the more Tournaments you buy the more rubbish you have clogging up your hands once your opponent starts scooping up Provinces. The Tournament race is one of the most interesting things in Dominion, and the aftermath is pretty fascinating too due to Tournament being crippled in the late game. And then there are times where you can ignore Tournament and let your opponent waste their time on it whilst you do more important things.

For what it's worth, all these cards that people hate are in my Top 25 cards; Governor, Masquerade, Tournament, Possession (with the stipulation that I only adore it in 2 player because it horribly imbalances 3+ player games), Jack of All Trades, Mountebank, Minion, Saboteur, Haggler. I find them all so fun!
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Autumn

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2012, 06:04:11 pm »
0

Anyway, the cards I find the least fun are:

Philosopher's Stone = Counting your deck and discard pile is a nuisance
Smugglers = I find it very unsatisfying for the reason mentioned earlier in the topic: you notice when a great card is copied from you, but it doesn't leave that great an impression when you copy a great card for once.
Black Market = HORRIBLE! Way too swingy, but more importantly it singlehandedly makes planning worth very little because you can't plan with the rest of the Kingdom in mind because you don't know what all the the Kingdom will even be!
Grand Market = Whoever gets the first one is normally in a substantially better position to pick up more of them, whilst the person who keeps getting bad draws (which is VERY easy to do when you're trying to push for Grand Market) has basically lost. Seeing this card in the Kingdom normally makes me cringe..
Treasure Map = Way to swingy.
Fool's Gold = Creates the most boring games ever in 2 player..
Farmland = I'll be honest, I'm just useless with this card. It's a personal thing I have to work past :P
Familiar = Way too swingy.
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