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[Robz888]

Oh, and yeah, I think it makes perfect sense that Grujah would use his Vig powers to kill Galzria. I said it was O and Galzria here, the people most likely to be mafia, that was pretty much the consensus, and yeah, O flipped mafia. So I can easily see Grujah picking to kill Galzria.

[Dsell]

preview edit: I hope by "ballzy" you mean "dumb way to get yourself vigged as town".

Well maybe so. But still, he was trying to help and that's a really cool way of doing it. And I'm sure he was aware of the risks of doing so.

[popsofctown]

what's scummy about Frisk's position on the chart is that Frisk was in no danger of being lynched so it doesn't cost him anything to say Frisk is scummy and try to get points if he turns up vigged.

Exactly. And as I read back through, O does lots of putting Frisk at the top of his suspicions, and a lot of quarreling with him... but not substantive quarreling. More like bickering. With you, it was bickering but he did actually vote for you and campaign for you. Frisk does occupy a much scummier spot.

O also defended Jo big time, all the time. This has to be weighed, because Jo was close-ish to lynch a couple times. If Jo was not mafia, would O care to defend him? The answer might be yes, but still.

We were so likely to see Jo's underbelly at any point, O had a lot to gain by disseminating accurate information about Jo's alignment.

Jo would be a day 1 bus speedbump.  I think O's death reflects positively on Jo more than negatively.

[Tables]

I agree with DSell - having looked back, Frisk now looks somewhat suspicious to me. Firstly his unwillingness to vote O, and disagreement with Pops suggestion of listing people we'd be happy to lynch, and putting O nice and low down - on his list, but low - all seem somewhat suspicious. Unwillingness to vote O is WIFOM, but suspicious nevertheless, and disagreeing with the listing makes sense if he's scum, as the list was making O look like a probable lynch. Trying to err the town away from using it would potentially save his scumbuddy. It's not enough for me to vote right now, but he's up on my suspicion list now.

Pops is down a fair bit - he proposed the method, and he WAS O's top target, which again is WIFOM but seems less likely to me.

[Robz888]

Okay, hold on. I see now that O did add a second vote onto Frisk here:

Vote Captain Frisk

He's also one of my weaker townreads.  PoE.

I support this bandwagon (and yes I have already FOS'd CF multiple times before).

Vote: Captain Frisk

Pops had already voted for him. So.... dunno.

[Robz888]

Later, he switches to voting Glooble.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So if I've read correctly, Robz is reviewing O posts, Tables and Jo are reviewing general stuff, and Dsell is reviewing Frisk.

@Robz and Tables (who are my strongest town reads right now): I need some guidance. My gut tells me to go back and review Galz's posts.  Is this likely to yield actionable information?  Should I concentrate on something else?

[Axxle]

Why would Grujah be the mafia target? I'm pretty sure mafia would have targeted SFS or Tables, two super confirmed town players, instead.  In light of that I'm pretty sure Galzria was the mafia kill.  The thread was dead without him much of the time and a quiet town is a benefit to the mafia team.

Regarding O's defense of Joth.  It does seem strange.  I could see one of two possibilities: 1) they're scumbuddies, 2) Joth is town and O wanted rep if we mislynched him, or a townie on his side (Joth) if we didn't.  I'm tending toward the latter.

PEdit: looks like some of this was already stated.

[Captain_Frisk]

Grujah (1): popsofctown
O (7): Tables, Robz888, Glooble, Galzria, Axxle, Grujah, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Galzria (2): jotheonah, Dsell
popsofctown (2): O, Captain_Frisk[/color]

Ok - So we almost lynched Grujah with the following wagon (Captain_Frisk, Glooble, popsofctown, jotheonah, O, Galzria)
We lost 2 of the people who were correct on O. 
Pops was voting on a confirmed innocent man (scummy)
J and DSell were voting on a confirmed innocent man, but together.
O (mafia) and I were voting for pops - which tends to make me look scummy and pops less so.

The people who refused to vote for O were: popsofctown, jotheonah, Dsell, O, Captain_Frisk

If mafia refused to bus O, they are in trouble - even if it means killing all 4 of us. 

We have 1-3 mafia remaining, and 0-1 serial killers? (and we can't have 3 mafia + 1 SK).

I tend to suspect pops / jo / DSell / me... in that order - but I now after watching O flip mafia, I'm rethinking DSell as a lurker.

Pre post edit: 20 replies!!!!

Pre post edit: Can't suspect DSell on account of OMGUS.

[jotheonah]

O's constant defending of me served one purpose for him; it got me on his side. Even at the end, I held off hammering him. I was trying not to let his stalwartness as my ally sway me in evaluating him, but ... perhaps it did get to me on some level.

But I also think perhaps he was hoping I would get lynched and he could ride the good graces of my flip.

The other person who has behaved toward me very similarly to O is, of course, pops, but that isn't scummy per se. I wouldn't expect the scum team to embrace matching strategies on anything, necessarily (nor would I rule it out). I know, not helpful.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Why would Grujah be the mafia target? I'm pretty sure mafia would have targeted SFS or Tables, two super confirmed town players, instead.  In light of that I'm pretty sure Galzria was the mafia kill.  The thread was dead without him much of the time and a quiet town is a benefit to the mafia team.

Regarding O's defense of Joth.  It does seem strange.  I could see one of two possibilities: 1) they're scumbuddies, 2) Joth is town and O wanted rep if we mislynched him, or a townie on his side (Joth) if we didn't.  I'm tending toward the latter.

PEdit: looks like some of this was already stated.

But if mafia targeted me or Tables, they run the risk of wasting a NK, as the protective roles had been advised several times to protect (one of) us.

[Dsell]

Also, Frisk's most recent post confirms the above if O flips Mafia.

Left to hammer:

SFS
Jo
Dsell
Pops
C.F.

For the record, if you believe the Mafia won't bus, then there are two Mafia in that list. Cross examined with the list of wagon voters, and you get:

C.F. - Jo - Pops

Pops is semi clear if O is Mafia. Jo and C.F. I've tied together in the past. Frisk talked a HUGE game all day about lynching Jo for being Jo, but refused to actually vote for him. His comment to Jo "Unvote yourself NOW and make them work to lynch you!" Was a huge tell.

If O comes up Mafia, then C.F. Needs to be the next target.

And yes Robz, I see that this list is the same as yours, viewed from a different angle. If it's accurate, I stand by the fact that it's serious OMGUS play by the Mafia team this game.

So this was one of Galz's last posts, and it's basically exactly what we've been talking about. This also reminds me that C_F was on Axxle1's wagon. Like I said, I DO NOT think we should target C_F just because Galz*thealmightytownie*ria said we should, but he has had some dang good reads in the past.

Tables, did C_F make a list? I checked and I couldn't find where he said that, he seemed opposed to making one. It would certainly be suspicious if, like I think you're saying, he listed O as being a "willing to lynch" but then was unwilling to lynch.

[jotheonah]

Why would Grujah be the mafia target? I'm pretty sure mafia would have targeted SFS or Tables, two super confirmed town players, instead.  In light of that I'm pretty sure Galzria was the mafia kill.  The thread was dead without him much of the time and a quiet town is a benefit to the mafia team.

Regarding O's defense of Joth.  It does seem strange.  I could see one of two possibilities: 1) they're scumbuddies, 2) Joth is town and O wanted rep if we mislynched him, or a townie on his side (Joth) if we didn't.  I'm tending toward the latter.

PEdit: looks like some of this was already stated.

NO WAY the mafia targets Galzria with me having explicitly stated I was going after him today and Robz having strongly implied it. He was lynch target #1. Lots of chaos and noise, very good for the mafia. If Galz was the scum target, I'll eat my hat.

[jotheonah]

Let's remember that once O had six votes, there was not that much incentive for his partner(s) not to hammer. O wasn't gonna live, and a bus would be very helpful to clearing them. I think that's a weak reason to suspect someone.

[Robz888]

This is truly hard to read:

Willing to lynch (in order of preference): Popsofctown, Jotheonah, Glooble, Grujah, Robz
Strong-unwilling: Tables, SFS, DSell (due to V/LA)
Still-pretty-damn-unwilling: Captain Frisk, Axxle, Galzria

O turns on Jo more and more as the bandwagon turns against O. It baffles me that he doesn't turn on Galzria, who is NOT a fellow mafia.

If Galzria were the Mafia Godfather, would he flip town when killed?

[Robz888]

Why would Grujah be the mafia target? I'm pretty sure mafia would have targeted SFS or Tables, two super confirmed town players, instead.  In light of that I'm pretty sure Galzria was the mafia kill.  The thread was dead without him much of the time and a quiet town is a benefit to the mafia team.

Regarding O's defense of Joth.  It does seem strange.  I could see one of two possibilities: 1) they're scumbuddies, 2) Joth is town and O wanted rep if we mislynched him, or a townie on his side (Joth) if we didn't.  I'm tending toward the latter.

PEdit: looks like some of this was already stated.

NO WAY the mafia targets Galzria with me having explicitly stated I was going after him today and Robz having strongly implied it. He was lynch target #1. Lots of chaos and noise, very good for the mafia. If Galz was the scum target, I'll eat my hat.

This.

[Robz888]

It makes Axxle2 suspicious even for uttering it.

[Robz888]

Okay, I've been through O's whole history. It's tough to read, actually. He goes after a lot of people, but it's tough to tell when his votes are serious. Meaning, it's tough to tell if he voted for his fellow mafia.

[Dsell]

I tend to suspect pops / jo / DSell / me... in that order - but I now after watching O flip mafia, I'm rethinking DSell as a lurker.

Pre post edit: 20 replies!!!!

Pre post edit: Can't suspect DSell on account of OMGUS.

What do you mean you're rethinking me as a lurker? I'm now not a lurker or I now am a lurker? Because I was on vacation for like a week...

Also, can someone explain how OMGUS relates? I know what it means but I'm not sure how it fits in context.

C_F, can you explain exactly why you were unwilling to lynch O? He was not at the top of my suspects list but he was suspicious enough to me that I would have absolutely voted for him if it was the difference between a lynch and a no-lynch. I got up at 6:40 am to make sure I had the chance... scumbag east coast mod

[jotheonah]

Agree or disagree?: The night's events should elevate Robz to obvtown. (Stopping the Grujah wagon, fingering O)

[Captain_Frisk]

Tables, did C_F make a list? I checked and I couldn't find where he said that, he seemed opposed to making one. It would certainly be suspicious if, like I think you're saying, he listed O as being a "willing to lynch" but then was unwilling to lynch.

I did make a list (was the last, or 2nd to last prior to Dsell?).  I had O squarely in the middle - because I viewed his playstyle as intentionally semi scummy... the type of thing he can play every game and be considered crazy enough to let live, but not scummy enough to lynch.  I'm not the only one who felt O was tough to read.

I didn't want to lynch because I felt like the decision to lynch him was time pressure based and potentially being steered by Scum - who were just picking a viable candidate after seeing everyone's votes.  If he flipped town - I wanted the maximum information from people who voted for him... and me being on there removed information for me.  If he flipped mafia - great!

Of course - I didn't consider that I'd be sitting in a pool of 4 people who look really scummy right now.

PPE - 7 more replies!

@Dsell - I think i've answered my no O vote.  As for lurking - you aren't now - that is true (although 20 replies came in while I was looking up the voting history).  It is true however, that you were an infrequent poster in past days.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

...Pops was voting on a confirmed innocent man (scummy)
J and DSell were voting on a confirmed innocent man, but together.

This feels like hindsight, as the confirmeds were not yet confirmed at the time.  Is this the standard way to sum up "this is what we know NOW" on the morning of a new day?  'Cause I've already wasted time on questioning some other specific phraseology that I seemed to read too much into, and I don't want to do it again. But this seems like it could be deflection, and Frisk IS under somewhat elevated suspicion today.

[Tables]

So if I've read correctly, Robz is reviewing O posts, Tables and Jo are reviewing general stuff, and Dsell is reviewing Frisk.

@Robz and Tables (who are my strongest town reads right now): I need some guidance. My gut tells me to go back and review Galz's posts.  Is this likely to yield actionable information?  Should I concentrate on something else?

Hmm... Galz, less so than rereading O, or people talking about Galz, I think. Concentrating on those is probably more helpful. The reasoning is that Galz knew no more than the rest of us, as a (generic) townie, BUT O did, knowing everyone who was not mafia, and also at least one other person talking about Galz also knew he wasn't mafia/SK (delete as appropriate), which is more than we knew then.

Man, this thread got active quick.

[Robz888]

I noticed this:

O (4): Tables, Robz888, Glooble, Galzria

So, all these people definitely not mafia, except Glooble. But yeah, Glooble supplies a crucial vote for O here, where O goes from possibly lynch to probably lynch. SO this reflects very well on Glooble. As does other stuff.

[Robz888]

The fifth O vote is Axxle2. Hmm. Does that acquit?