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[O]

There are I counted, all of zero posts where I found him make useful, new analysis.

Bullcrap. I made the point that survivalist tell isn't scumtell.

What analysis have you made?

Also I've been in Hawaii for a week. Still posted a bunch but I really hate Ipads and won't post anything long on them.

Vote:Tables for lurking, then redirection for bad reasons.

[popsofctown]

There are I counted, all of zero posts where I found him make useful, new analysis.

Bullcrap. I made the point that survivalist tell isn't scumtell.

What analysis have you made?

Also I've been in Hawaii for a week. Still posted a bunch but I really hate Ipads and won't post anything long on them.

Vote:Tables for lurking, then redirection for bad reasons.

I quoted the immediately preceding post (unless I get ninja'ed).
I demand stickers.

O's inability to remember that Tables is investigated town is scummy, Hawaii or not.  For a scum it blends in with all the other person known to be town, for townies paying any attention at all it should be a flashing green light in your memory that this is the one player in the game whose alignment we know with a high degree of certainty.

Vote: O

It's a pretty ugly omgus too.

[Tables]

Do I even need to explain how terrible that post is?

Unvote, Vote: O for OMGUSing, making fake accusations and redirection for terrible reasons.

What analysis have I made? I made a post last page about how O's been lurking, about Joth's wagon, on Joth's behavior and on the Pops/Galz debate. And that's just from page 70 onwards.

I don't post often because I'm not online often, but when I post my posts have substance. That's something you've been lacking right from day 1.

And as I typed this Pops has jumped in. Which is interesting. I was going to unvote and vote back to Joth but... no, actually, I still think that's better. There's been so little discussion about O that if he flips town, we get nothing, while we get something from Joth, and regardless I think Joth is more likely scum.

[Tables]

*Er, Unvote, Vote: Joth.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-19

jotheonah (4): Dsell, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Tables
popsofctown (1): Glooble
Glooble (1): Galzria
Axxle (1): jotheonah
O (2): Grujah, popsofctown
Tables (1): O

Not voting {2}: Captain_Frisk, Axxle

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Monday, June 25, 9:59 a.m. EDT

[Axxle]

... What just happened?

[popsofctown]

Why does no one listen to me.  That was a scumslip.  And why in this thread so arrogant and stuck up that they think they can read joth better than his TWIN BROTHER can. Like, I'm totally arrogant, stuck up, egotistical and full of myself but I'm STILL not enough of a winbag to play as if I can interpret joth's interpersonal communication as well as the guy with MATCHING GENETIC CODE AND CHILDHOOD can.
Like, seriously, seriously?, seriously. 

Yes, Glooble's read doesn't set joth's odds of being scum to zero.  But it should stupidly obviously be an expert opinion.  A professional poker player is reading over your shoulder telling you to fold and you're going all in.  Yeah, technically you could be right and he could be wrong, maybe you get lucky and draw a flush.  But you know that putting your money on your own abilities and not his makes you a curse word I don't want to put on f.ds.

[popsofctown]

It rhymes with molasses.  Kinda.

[jotheonah]

Explain yo'self O. IIRC you're in the SFS is obvtown camp. SFS claims to have investigated and cleared Tables. You just accused and voted Tables (I'm assuming that means you think he's mafia).

So do you (A) no longer believe SFS is town, (B) believe SFS is town but Tables somehow investigated falsely, or (C) believe Tables is town but voted him anyway?

[Axxle]

Why does no one listen to me.  That was a scumslip.  And why in this thread so arrogant and stuck up that they think they can read joth better than his TWIN BROTHER can. Like, I'm totally arrogant, stuck up, egotistical and full of myself but I'm STILL not enough of a winbag to play as if I can interpret joth's interpersonal communication as well as the guy with MATCHING GENETIC CODE AND CHILDHOOD can.
Like, seriously, seriously?, seriously. 

Yes, Glooble's read doesn't set joth's odds of being scum to zero.  But it should stupidly obviously be an expert opinion.  A professional poker player is reading over your shoulder telling you to fold and you're going all in.  Yeah, technically you could be right and he could be wrong, maybe you get lucky and draw a flush.  But you know that putting your money on your own abilities and not his makes you a curse word I don't want to put on f.ds.

This is why I said that Glooble and Joth are on the same team.  The read can be wrong if they're both scum.  I'm leaning toward them both being town atm.

[jotheonah]

pops, I am certainly listening. I want to give O a chance to defend that weirdness.

[Axxle]

Do I even need to explain how terrible that post is?

Unvote, Vote: O for OMGUSing, making fake accusations and redirection for terrible reasons.

What analysis have I made? I made a post last page about how O's been lurking, about Joth's wagon, on Joth's behavior and on the Pops/Galz debate. And that's just from page 70 onwards.

I don't post often because I'm not online often, but when I post my posts have substance. That's something you've been lacking right from day 1.

And as I typed this Pops has jumped in. Which is interesting. I was going to unvote and vote back to Joth but... no, actually, I still think that's better. There's been so little discussion about O that if he flips town, we get nothing, while we get something from Joth, and regardless I think Joth is more likely scum.

*Er, Unvote, Vote: Joth.

I don't understand what you're talking about Tables, it looks like you're responding to O, and you say you were unvoting O even though you weren't even voting O? What?

And O's retaliation against Tables is scummy too...

[Axxle]

I think you both succeeded in exploding my brain.  good work.

[Captain_Frisk]

What was up with tables double votes? I don't really understand.

[jotheonah]

Spin it out for us pops. O is (hypothetically) mafia. What does that tell us about everyone else? What other evidence is there besides this one slip? (I'm asking you because you just threw down a vote).

[jotheonah]

What was up with tables double votes? I don't really understand.

He wanted to vote for O without really voting for me because he still thinks I'm scummier and my wagon is more informative.

[Axxle]

He wanted to vote for O without really voting for me....

wat.

[O]

I forgot about the investigation. Its a fuck-up, but a town fuck-up.

And no Pops, it's not "Hawaii or not". It's not even Hawaii's fault; I believe the day started before I left? I just forgot and Tables has lurked so much that it wasn't really in my mindset.

Unvote for obvious reasons, Revote: Glooble

Table's argument is still crap. I was "lurking" because I was in Hawaii. I stated this to the group, and I made analysis, which tables claimed I didn't, because I argued that a survivalist tell is not a scumtell. So not it was not OMGUS, Eevee D1 MIII was OMGUS. This was just a response to a clearly crap-argument bandwagon lifted by Grujah and Tables.

[Captain_Frisk]

He wanted to vote for O without really voting for me....

wat.

I'm guessing autocorrect some misspelling of while changed into without

[O]

@Pops, nobody listens to you because you're just as insane and "unhelpful" as I am but without the benefit of adding humor or discussion to the thread.

I admit I fucked up, it was a town fuck-up. If I was scum I would sure as hell pay more attention to my posts then I did right there.

[popsofctown]

I can see town making that mistake, but I see scum making that mistake more often than town.  Lashing out doesn't do much good.  I've seen scum lynched for slips like that, and (fewer) town lynched for similar slips.  They happen, and they're decent material to work with.  Scum tend to know "what's going on" less in general, and it can be a helpful rule of thumb (that's largely empirical, I can't very strongly explain why).

I've made a post saying O is scummy before, I expressed that I did not like how he did not take a side day 1 amongst the leading wagons and instead just camped out a vote on me.  And then Day 2 he criticized the mislynch, as if his lack of participation in actually stringing people up was deliberate.  He also just has been largely useless, like table says.  He posts forgettably, he doesn't make a lot of posts that have me remembering "oh that guy is looking for scum".  The best thing I ever think about his posts is "this guy has a funky anti-town playstyle and I don't think I'll be able to do much to read him", which is an information vacuum that this slip expands to fill.

[Robz888]

Couple things.

O made a mistake. Well, that's something. It's not nothing, and we shouldn't ignore it. But his explanation--it was just a townie mistake, he's been on vacation, that SFS-Tables thing was like 40 pages ago during the longest round ever--is okay-ish by me.

Pops, I don't trust Glooble's read of Jo better than I trust my own. If Glooble was an experienced Forum mafia player to the degree his brother his, I would agree with you. If they were on an equal experience playing field, and I trusted Glooble, I would agree with whatever he thought about Jo. Since this is Glooble's first game, I find it perfectly reasonable Jo could fool him. Maybe not in person, but online? Sure.

[popsofctown]

It's true scum use the preview button and post more meticulously, but in this specific instance you're missing the little scorecard in the back of your head saying Tables is highprobtown.

I've read tons of Tables posts today that looked like they seem scummy as mess, but since he is actually an outlier in the extra information I have on him as a townie, I always remembered not to bother with it. 

[O]

I can see town making that mistake, but I see scum making that mistake more often than town.  Lashing out doesn't do much good.  I've seen scum lynched for slips like that, and (fewer) town lynched for similar slips.  They happen, and they're decent material to work with.  Scum tend to know "what's going on" less in general, and it can be a helpful rule of thumb (that's largely empirical, I can't very strongly explain why).

I've made a post saying O is scummy before, I expressed that I did not like how he did not take a side day 1 amongst the leading wagons and instead just camped out a vote on me.  And then Day 2 he criticized the mislynch, as if his lack of participation in actually stringing people up was deliberate.  He also just has been largely useless, like table says.  He posts forgettably, he doesn't make a lot of posts that have me remembering "oh that guy is looking for scum".  The best thing I ever think about his posts is "this guy has a funky anti-town playstyle and I don't think I'll be able to do much to read him", which is an information vacuum that this slip expands to fill.

I just find it hard to believe that this analysis is what you truly believe; primarily because your play style is so similar to mine, except without the humor.

@ your other accusations.
I parked my vote on you because I liked the idea of lynching you and because I knew I had no control over the D1 lynch anyways. Its my selfish playstyle, and this argument works whether I'm scum or town I know, but I like not being a major factor of the D1 bandwagon because I inherently get more information when I'm not in the wagon then when I am. Mafia I with Theory vs. TINAS was different; I was damn sure TINAS was townie (though I do not claim to know that he was a power role).

I don't remember "criticizing" the misslynch and don't really want to look back 100 pages, if you could bring me that quote I would love to refute that aswell.

And you just admitted you found Tables scummy postwise. I'm not as pro as you are or I'm just too damn lazy, and I just didn't remember.

Final argument before I get myself lynched because survivalist tell is scumtell... I was in Hawaii. I was in MIII (which took a LOT more of my attention as we were in lylo and had much more information), obviously am in MIV, and now MV. I was thinking about posting the sign-ups for MVI. Its not unreasonable that I forget things in one of the mafia games. (Part of the reason I'm hosting MVI is so I don't play in it...  )

[popsofctown]

Couple things.

O made a mistake. Well, that's something. It's not nothing, and we shouldn't ignore it. But his explanation--it was just a townie mistake, he's been on vacation, that SFS-Tables thing was like 40 pages ago during the longest round ever--is okay-ish by me.

Pops, I don't trust Glooble's read of Jo better than I trust my own. If Glooble was an experienced Forum mafia player to the degree his brother his, I would agree with you. If they were on an equal experience playing field, and I trusted Glooble, I would agree with whatever he thought about Jo. Since this is Glooble's first game, I find it perfectly reasonable Jo could fool him. Maybe not in person, but online? Sure.

Glooble defined a high amount of certainty on his read himself.  He said he was overall highly certain of his read.  As an example, this is much like when I played Dominion with my cousin Stephen last night.  It was his third game.  Yes he was bad at Dominion.  But he knows that.  And if you take the accuracy he assigns to his own valuation into account, you overall get a reasonable assessment of Dominion cards.  He expressed high certainty that Cache was bad.  He expressed low certainty that Nomad's Camp was a good card.  He expressed pretty high certainty that Gold was a strong card.  He expressed low certainty that Fool's Gold was a weak/average card.  If you take into account how sure he is, it doesn't matter that he is unskilled at the item in question, he knows his own limits.  Glooble knows his own limits too.  To say he doesn't know his own limits is to treat him like a 6 year old that is highly confident he can drive a car.  It's still arrogant and illogical, and largely rooted in self-directed biases.