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[Axxle]

@Insomniac

"It seems to me that the longer day 1 is drawn out, the more it helps the town"

Could you elaborate? I'm inclined to disagree to an extent. I don't think we should lynch quickly, but confusion is the tool Mafia use best, and the longer the have to burrow their holes, make friends, and divide, confuse, and separate townies the better it'll be for them. People can be blind to their beliefs, and it becomes increasingly easy for Mafia to exploit that.

An example of exactly that question that you then wrote off as useless theory talk.

How exactly does discussing this help?  I fail to see it.  You learn what someone's general ideas of how to play the game are, but those aren't immutable.  And we'd just run around in circles talking about hypothetical situations.

And why are you disengaging my so quickly? Shouldn't you be trying to gauge me, or are you so convinced (or determined to paint me as mafia) that you aren't even trying to get a town read off me anymore?

[Galzria]

Please read paragraphs 1 and 2 from town perspective. I engaged in the first early with you, and with two other players. Now I'm moving on to paragraph 2:

 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12228

[Galzria]

Also, going back and forth with you doesn't further my case. I'm not going to convince you of anything, and it simply drowns out the points that I AM making, which were stated previously. Town reading tit-for-tat gets turned off. I would rather my argument be considered for the merits I believe it has.

[Axxle]

I thought we were reengaging in the first part. I'm surprised you're that convinced.

[Dsell]

@Galz

I think simply we should use as much time as we need to lynch the right person. I don't think there is any particular length of time we ought to observe. I will say that being under no pressure from a deadline is nice. Tbh, the fact that everyone has voted already (and I presume that pretty much all of the current votes are serious) suggests to me that people are in fact ready to lynch...if enough people are thinking the same way as they are. While I agree with Theorel that many bandwagons are going to include some mafia, I also think it doesn't make sense to abandon your convictions because others agree with you.

[Dsell]

Although I don't really agree with Axxle when he says that lynching early takes the pressure off of a person. We have to lynch at some point and the person receiving votes doesn't know that it won't be him.

[Galzria]

I thought we were reengaging in the first part. I'm surprised you're that convinced.

Convinced? Well, I think more likely than where my vote was. At least this has a genuine feel to me. I wouldn't say you ARE Mafia, just that I like the odds now more than J.

[Dsell]

Sorry, *I don't agree with Axxle when he says that waiting to lynch takes the pressure off a person.

[Galzria]

Dsell, please note, I did NOT abandon convictions because people  agreed with me. I did because I'm not convinced J's play reads Mafia, and I'm getting a stronger overall vibe from Axxle. Please reread post #760.

[Dsell]

@Galz, I actually wasn't talking to you at all. I was speaking generally about abandoning convictions because "a lot of votes must mean this is a mafia-led bandwagon." I can see how you would think I talking about you, though.

[Galzria]

Also, @Dsell, if I didn't make it clear, I have no problems that Axxle WOULD feel that way about not waiting to lynch. I have a problem that he even mentions it now, when it's more likely to have an impact, AFTER having written off my attempts to gather that exact information from people early, so that they COULDN'T use it as leverage now.

[Galzria]

@Galz

I think simply we should use as much time as we need to lynch the right person. I don't think there is any particular length of time we ought to observe. I will say that being under no pressure from a deadline is nice. Tbh, the fact that everyone has voted already (and I presume that pretty much all of the current votes are serious) suggests to me that people are in fact ready to lynch...if enough people are thinking the same way as they are. While I agree with Theorel that many bandwagons are going to include some mafia, I also think it doesn't make sense to abandon your convictions because others agree with you.

Yeah, I did think you were talking to me.

[Dsell]

Oh, sorry sorry. Gosh I'm making a lot of typos.

@Galz, I actually wasn't talking about you at all. I was speaking generally about abandoning convictions because "a lot of votes must mean this is a mafia-led bandwagon." I can see how you would think I was talking about you, though.

I see your point now, though I was offering my input on post #760, like you asked for in #774.

[Galzria]

Oh, sorry sorry. Gosh I'm making a lot of typos.

@Galz, I actually wasn't talking about you at all. I was speaking generally about abandoning convictions because "a lot of votes must mean this is a mafia-led bandwagon." I can see how you would think I was talking about you, though.

I see your point now, though I was offering my input on post #760, like you asked for in #774.

no problem. Points taken.

[Voltgloss]

Galzria and Dsell were sitting on a bench in the Estate's Laboratory.  Galzria was staring glumly into space.  Dsell was flipping a Copper, announcing it each time.

flip "Heads."
flip "Heads."
flip "Heads."
flip "Heads I win."
flip "Heads."
flip "Heads."
flip "Again...."

G: "A weaker man might be moved to examine his faith."

flip "Heads."
flip "Heads."

G: "For nothing else at least in the law of probability..."

flip "Heads."
flip "Seventy-nine in a row."

Suddenly popsofctown loomed into view.  "Are you two going to do anything constructive??"

Dsell looked at him.  "What did you have in mind?  A short, blunt, human pyramid?"

Vote Count 1-9

popsofctown (2) - Insomniac, O
Grujah (3) - theorel, Glooble, jotheonah
jotheonah (5) - Green Opal, Axxle, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Dsell
Dsell (1) - Captain_Frisk
Glooble (1) - popsofctown
Axxle (1) - Galzria

Not Voting {2} - Tables, Grujah

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[popsofctown]

Joth's cocktail of VT and being a data mine of a wagon is enough for me to like it.  I think I might hammer it.  Not now though.  We've ever so much to discuss.

Axxle is one of the most scummy characters in the game so far for me.  His posts are very Information-Instead-of-Analysis and his recent post on the merits of short days versus long ones is no exception, I would have liked to hear more strong stances from him.

[Galzria]

It's so peaceful here at night... You almost forget there was a murder...

[O]

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

[Galzria]

Rofl. Wrong game O.

[Robz888]

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

Think you're barking up the wrong mafia thread, pal. This is the one where me and Galzria are alive. Way to rub it in.

[O]

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

I give myself 0/10... dear god.

I guess I still can't delete that post.

[Galzria]

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

I give myself 0/10... dear god.

I guess I still can't delete that post.

Nope. But I +1'd it for the laugh. So hey, free point.

[theorel]

Ah, mafia 3 started up again...maybe that will relieve some of the pressure on this thread.  Is that why there's less than 1 page of posts since I went to bed?

Anyways, I'll go reread some stuff before I say anything else, because there were a few posts there that I thought merited response before the jotheonah situation started getting so far out of hand.

[Captain_Frisk]

- If actually vanilla town - Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense as a vanilla townie - since this claim is already implied by everyone.  If it saves the lynch - and is true and later verified - all he's done is shifted the lynch target to another.  While someone pointed out that we're now more likely to hit power role, we are also more likely to hit mafia - as there is a 0% chance of lynching mafia if we lynch vanilla town.

You're logical and clearheaded enough that this willing misinterpretation is confusing. My point was that if mafia believe Jo's VT roleclaim (which they probably do if Jo is NOT mafia), then the mafia won't kill him and have a higher chance of hitting a power role.

O - I promised a response to this - and here it is.

Thank you.  I honestly hadn't considered the night kill aspect of things - I thought you were simply referring to the lynch kill - which also of course has a greater chance of killing town power role.

At the risk of theory vs. in game analysis - I had the impression that mafia didn't like having cleared townies around, and thus might kill him anyway?

I'm about to dig into the J bandwagon and will post on that shortly.

[Grujah]

Just because he claimed VT and wasn't lynch doesn't mean his "cleared as townie". Him surviving the night casts suspicion back at him, and gives, as O sad, bigger chances of mobs killing a PR.