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[jotheonah]

The people who are saying the right thing to do is kill me either way are right. But I have some additional information that might change that.

I lied when I said I was a One-Shot Vigilante.  I'm actually just a Vigilante. I can choose to nightkill every night to help the town.  But I thought that if I claimed it as a one-shot, I could use it and then the mafia wouldn't target me, because they would think I was now just a Vanilla. Then later on, when we really needed the power, I could use it.

But the mafia rolecop must have investigated me and discovered the truth. That's why Axxle is so desperate to kill me today, during the day. The mafia can't afford for me to survive into the night.

[O]

The people who are saying the right thing to do is kill me either way are right. But I have some additional information that might change that.

I lied when I said I was a One-Shot Vigilante.  I'm actually just a Vigilante. I can choose to nightkill every night to help the town.  But I thought that if I claimed it as a one-shot, I could use it and then the mafia wouldn't target me, because they would think I was now just a Vanilla. Then later on, when we really needed the power, I could use it.

But the mafia rolecop must have investigated me and discovered the truth. That's why Axxle is so desperate to kill me today, during the day. The mafia can't afford for me to survive into the night.

...I applaud you for your efforts, that's damn close to the only argument that had a chance of working.

But nope. Better to kill the person who's a confirmed liar then risk killing Axxle (likely the cop!) first.

[Axxle]

So... what were you going to do about this then?

Let's explore this theoretical "I'm the serial killer" thing. So I claim the most obvious role claim, just hoping nobody counterclaims. And then I win the town's trust with my kill. And then I just hope no one investigates me. And then I masquerade through Day 2 as a helpful townie and ... then what? Either I never use my night kill again (which makes it very difficult for me to win) or I start using it and you guys (who are not dumb) immediately realize the gambit. It's a terrible plan. The SK is not playing to survive day to day. He has no allies. He has to survive ALL GAME. You should know better than to trust an easy answer.

Doesn't it apply to that lie?

[Dsell]

Unvote because this turn of events interests me. The only thing that this could change is whether we lynch Axxle first or jo.

How likely do we think it is that the mafia has a vigilante equivalent or that jo is the serial killer? I don't like that jo lied particularly, but he could very well be lying even now.

[Axxle]

How likely do we think it is that the mafia has a vigilante equivalent

Mafia does not need a vigilante equivalent. If we have a mafia team and an SK there would also be 2 deaths.

[O]

Unvote because this turn of events interests me. The only thing that this could change is whether we lynch Axxle first or jo.

How likely do we think it is that the mafia has a vigilante equivalent or that jo is the serial killer? I don't like that jo lied particularly, but he could very well be lying even now.

...you are very, very, very gullible. Or a very terrible mafia.

J is clearly the lynch choice here. Dsell is becoming rapidly more suspicious in this game.

In fact, J, your optimal strategy here is probably to vote for yourself and deny the town information of the last voter. (Why am I giving this idea away? I like quicker mafia games).

[jotheonah]

I'm not sure what you mean, Axxle. Is it ideal that I can't prove I'm not the serial killer? No. But why would I lie about this if I am?

If I'm SK, honestly, I've already lost. Say I miraculously talk the town into lynching you and you flip cop. Then they'll believe your claim about investigating me, and they'll know I'm SK. If I'm SK, there's just no way I can win this game. Luckily for me, I'm not SK. I'm Town Vig.

[Dsell]

Ummm yeah I think I want fewer deaths. Whichever person is mafia, we will have a LOT of information at that point, likely enough information for the town to win. I'm sorry to keep changing my mind but...

Vote: jotheonah

Because even if he's telling the truth, he very well might hit another town again. And that's a bigger risk than just taking him out now.

[Axxle]

Does anyone remember who suggested who J should target? That might matter later.

[Dsell]

Unvote because this turn of events interests me. The only thing that this could change is whether we lynch Axxle first or jo.

How likely do we think it is that the mafia has a vigilante equivalent or that jo is the serial killer? I don't like that jo lied particularly, but he could very well be lying even now.

...you are very, very, very gullible. Or a very terrible mafia.

J is clearly the lynch choice here. Dsell is becoming rapidly more suspicious in this game.

In fact, J, your optimal strategy here is probably to vote for yourself and deny the town information of the last voter. (Why am I giving this idea away? I like quicker mafia games).

There's no risk in unvoting and revoting! I said it interests me, I didn't say I believed it. It's a really fun thought exercise but I fully expect that I will be cleared quite soon anyway.

[Dsell]

Does anyone remember who suggested who J should target? That might matter later.

O suggested flipping a coin a choosing either himself or Frisk based on the result. It was later changed to an odd or even timestamp on a post.

[O]

Does anyone remember who suggested who J should target? That might matter later.

O suggested flipping a coin a choosing either himself or Frisk based on the result. It was later changed to an odd or even timestamp on a post.

This is correct

[jotheonah]

I should point out that IF you lynch me today, this is a very good day for the mafia. You've wiped out the one person who can nightkill them and they went a whole day without giving you any information.

And this, here's the clincher, is even more true if I flip SK.

[Axxle]

Well the forum search is terrible, I did a search for "coin" said by "O" in "Forum Games" and all I got was this lousy T-Sh... I mean post:

Does anyone remember who suggested who J should target? That might matter later.

O suggested flipping a coin a choosing either himself or Frisk based on the result. It was later changed to an odd or even timestamp on a post.

This is correct

[O]

I should point out that IF you lynch me today, this is a very good day for the mafia. You've wiped out the one person who can nightkill them and they went a whole day without giving you any information.

And this, here's the clincher, is even more true if I flip SK.

But in all likelihood you're *not* a vigilante OR a SK. You're a vanilla mafia.

[O]

And would the people like to suggest whom I should use my power ON? Cause firing it blindly is ... not protown.

I'd like you to flip a coin. Heads, Captain Frisk, Tails, O.

Killing someone whose going to get lynched anyways (because people tend to believe Galzria for some reason) is good townie strategy.

[Axxle]

And this, here's the clincher, is even more true if I flip SK.

This is the only reason why I'm slightly hesitant to lynch J today.  If he is SK he may be able to help us kill mafia, and the mafia will want to get rid of him eventually.

If he's mafia though I'm 100% fine with lynching him.

[Axxle]

I'll try to go back to Day 1 and see if he supported anyone too much or anyone supported him too much or if he looked more of a loner.

[Eevee]

Not voting until morgrim and ehalcyon post something (in case we get more roleclaims or something crazy like that) but EVERYTHING is pointing to joh now so I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where I would change my mind. Still, we gain nothing by hurrying to the night without giving everyone a chance to chime in.

[Axxle]

I didn't really see him talk about many positively, lots of defense, attacks on O and Galz. He immediately retracts accusation of Galz though, convinced he is town.  There was an instance of defense of Eevee Post #489 ("Promising Town").  A jab at def (me) and others that post in the middle ground.  Accusing O and Robz of colluding against Eevee.  other things. eventually votes Eevee?

I'm definitely thinking he's SK and not Mafia, especially since he asked the town who he should kill without giving any input on who he thought should die, in fact he suggested that he wasn't even going to use his role last night:

Now nothing left to do but survive the night. Protector roles, my life is likely in your hands. Though I will say on record that I won't use my power this night.

And would the people like to suggest whom I should use my power ON? Cause firing it blindly is ... not protown.

You wouldn't choose not to use it if you're a normal Vigilante.  And if you ask the town who you should kill as an SK you don't really care who they suggest, you can just go along with it.

So, J is an SK, what should we do about it?

[jotheonah]

You wouldn't choose not to use it if you're a normal Vigilante. 

How do you figure? Like I said, firing it blindly would not have been pro-town.

[Voltgloss]

I didn't really see him talk about many positively, lots of defense, attacks on O and Galz. He immediately retracts accusation of Galz though, convinced he is town.  There was an instance of defense of Eevee Post #489 ("Promising Town").  A jab at def (me) and others that post in the middle ground.  Accusing O and Robz of colluding against Eevee.  other things. eventually votes Eevee?

This covers the extent to which J was supporting anybody else.  To what extent was anybody else supporting J?

[Axxle]

How do you figure? Like I said, firing it blindly would not have been pro-town.

You had some very strong accusations throughout the day, Captain_Frisk wasn't really one of them.  Robz and O in particular.  You even voted for Eevee for a bit.  Sure firing it blindly isn't really protown, are you saying you didn't have any scumtells at that point?

[Axxle]

I didn't really see him talk about many positively, lots of defense, attacks on O and Galz. He immediately retracts accusation of Galz though, convinced he is town.  There was an instance of defense of Eevee Post #489 ("Promising Town").  A jab at def (me) and others that post in the middle ground.  Accusing O and Robz of colluding against Eevee.  other things. eventually votes Eevee?

This covers the extent to which J was supporting anybody else.  To what extent was anybody else supporting J?

That is a lot more difficult to look up, I can't really do that during my lunch, can someone else try?

[Voltgloss]

I'll try to go back to Day 1 and see if he supported anyone too much or anyone supported him too much or if he looked more of a loner.

Sorry Axxle, I thought from this quote that you were looking at who supported J as well.  I'm happy to dig into this but it won't be until this evening (EDT).