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[eHalcyon]

Well... I guess jo was telling the truth.  Or he's a serial killer. 

[eHalcyon]

Axxle replaces def?

[Dsell]

@jotheonah, did you use your one-time kill? I think the first order of business is to try to make sense of these kills. I don't really understand them.

[eHalcyon]

@jotheonah, did you use your one-time kill? I think the first order of business is to try to make sense of these kills. I don't really understand them.

O suggested jo use his one-shot kill on Captain_Frisk or himself, as determined by coin flip.  For public accountability, I suggested that if he follow O's suggestion that he randomize using the time stamp on Insomniac's thread lock post.  I said odd for O, even for Captain_Frisk.  It was even.

I think this verifies jotheonah as a (now vanilla) townie.  Either that or he is a serial killer.

[Dsell]

@jotheonah, did you use your one-time kill? I think the first order of business is to try to make sense of these kills. I don't really understand them.

O suggested jo use his one-shot kill on Captain_Frisk or himself, as determined by coin flip.  For public accountability, I suggested that if he follow O's suggestion that he randomize using the time stamp on Insomniac's thread lock post.  I said odd for O, even for Captain_Frisk.  It was even.

I think this verifies jotheonah as a (now vanilla) townie.  Either that or he is a serial killer.

Unless there is a serial killer! We need to hear from jo, because if he was blocked or chose not to use his role (which would be weird) then we need to know about it.

[eHalcyon]

Unless there is a serial killer! We need to hear from jo, because if he was blocked or chose not to use his role (which would be weird) then we need to know about it.

I thought that if you get blocked, you aren't informed of it...?

But yeah, if he chose not to use it, that would be important to know.

OK, so I guess a big question is why Robz?

[Dsell]

Unless there is a serial killer! We need to hear from jo, because if he was blocked or chose not to use his role (which would be weird) then we need to know about it.

I thought that if you get blocked, you aren't informed of it...?

But yeah, if he chose not to use it, that would be important to know.

OK, so I guess a big question is why Robz?

That is my question too. It seems like a very odd choice because I was very suspicious of him (sorry Robz ), and I probably would have still been suspicious of him day 2. It could be to throw suspicion on Eevee, or it could even be that the mafia were worried about his strong suspicion of Eevee (i.e. Eevee is mafia).

[eHalcyon]

That is my question too. It seems like a very odd choice because I was very suspicious of him (sorry Robz ), and I probably would have still been suspicious of him day 2. It could be to throw suspicion on Eevee, or it could even be that the mafia were worried about his strong suspicion of Eevee (i.e. Eevee is mafia).

Robz wasn't suspicious only of Eevee though.  He was also against you (probably because you were going after him pretty hard) and he also voiced suspicions of Voltgloss and jo.

And of course, there is a huge WIFOM problem.  Maybe Robz suspected none of the Mafia at all and that's why he was targeted, so that suspicion would be cast on those he suspected.

[Dsell]

I really hate that we are going to be stuck on an even number of players now. Makes it a lot harder to get a majority.

[Voltgloss]

Agreed that we need to hear from jotheonah whether he used his power, and if so, upon whom.  I don't see how we can start making sense of these kills until he does. 

Plus, I for one don't feel comfortable voicing my analysis on these kills until after J has publicly declared what he did (or didn't) do during the night.  No offense J, but if you're in fact anti-town, the worst thing for the town right now is for us to blather on along the lines "well if J did this he's probably innocent" and for you to then chime in "yup that's exactly what I did."

[jotheonah]

I used my nightkill on Captain Frisk, both because of the suggestion to do so and because, during the night, I looked through the record and decided i had sufficient evidence suggesting he was mafia that it was a possibility - it certainly fit into Robz's purview of slightly lurky townies. I'm disappointed that he was town.

I wouldn't have fired the shot just because I was told to do it, but I did think there was a chance he was mafia. I will post my full case against him if it interests people, but I think it's enough to know I was wrong, and I'm sorry to have hurt town. I just hope I at least proved myself to you all.

[Dsell]

Well ok. For me this clears J.

So the mafia killed Robz. I consider this a good night kill for me, because I think I would have continued to go on that wild goose chase.

The mafia must have either believed that Robz was a power role or wished to make someone else (or a group of others) look innocent or guilty with this kill.

[jotheonah]

This day start caught me off guard! But having given you all the info you needed, from me, I do need to go to bed. I'll chime in on the discussion tomorrow.

[Dsell]

I almost want to think they killed him because they thought he was a power role. He really doesn't seem like a great strategic choice. However, I think we should go on the assumption that there was strategic motivation because we don't get any information by assuming they were looking for a power role. It's possible the mafia is trying to confuse us.

I think that this kill should either make us much more or much less suspicious of Eevee. Yes, he had other suspects, but Eevee was who he was really gunning for. So either the mafia wanted to nip that suspicion in the bud (which seems like the obvious, not very sneaky play) or they want to validate his suspicions (which seems sneakier but perhaps more likely...I doubt we're working with "obvious" mafia). The first case would make Eevee mafia and the second case would make Eevee town. The mafia could have had other reasons though or they may have been really bluffing and want us to choose one of the above options.

I think all of the above should probably apply to myself to a lesser degree, as well as Voltgloss to an even lesser degree.

[O]

Cross-posting from mafia IV, where I managed to miss-post this...

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

[Eevee]

Cross-posting from mafia IV, where I managed to miss-post this...

well.. 3 of us down. At least somehow we haven't lost a power role yet (unless you count the vigilante's *power*)

I hope I'm somewhat cleared: I did provide for a 50% chance of my own death, which is insane as mafia or SK.

Equally insane as town though, especially given a higher % of the town left have power roles now.

@Dsell
It really looks like you are trying to make everyone forget what happened between you and Robz yesterday. How does everyone else feel about Dsell's analysis that just starts "well, because I am town, ..."?? Seems to me like you are trying to make everyone assume that before anyone remembers to suspect you.

Too tired to start writing a longer post now.

[Dsell]

@Dsell
It really looks like you are trying to make everyone forget what happened between you and Robz yesterday. How does everyone else feel about Dsell's analysis that just starts "well, because I am town, ..."?? Seems to me like you are trying to make everyone assume that before anyone remembers to suspect you.

Too tired to start writing a longer post now.

Where did I say this? How am I trying to make everyone forget? I've already mentioned it twice. Yes, I was seriously gunning for Robz yesterday. Yes, I sincerely thought he was mafia. Yes, the fact that he turned up townie should shed some suspicion on me. I get that. But I don't see what I've done to get this much suspicion. If you are merely suspicious because I'm "trying to make everyone forget what happened" well that is just false. If you have other reasons, you should bring them up.

[Axxle]

Yo!  I've been somewhat following, but now I guess I have to reread it more closely.

[Dsell]

Yo!  I've been somewhat following, but now I guess I have to reread it more closely.

Sorry about that, we're a talkative bunch.

@Eevee, I wanted Robz dead yesterday, but the mafia have actually done me a big favor by removing him for me. He would have been a complete distraction day 2. Obviously now I see that Robz tunnel vision was just really, really wrong and I was very guilty of being a misguided townie, but that just doesn't translate to good mafia play. Frankly I'm not sure why the mafia chose to kill Robz, because a distracted townie is better than a townie equipped with more information and going back to the drawing board looking for mafia.

[Eevee]

@Dsell
It really looks like you are trying to make everyone forget what happened between you and Robz yesterday. How does everyone else feel about Dsell's analysis that just starts "well, because I am town, ..."?? Seems to me like you are trying to make everyone assume that before anyone remembers to suspect you.

Too tired to start writing a longer post now.

Where did I say this? How am I trying to make everyone forget? I've already mentioned it twice. Yes, I was seriously gunning for Robz yesterday. Yes, I sincerely thought he was mafia. Yes, the fact that he turned up townie should shed some suspicion on me. I get that. But I don't see what I've done to get this much suspicion. If you are merely suspicious because I'm "trying to make everyone forget what happened" well that is just false. If you have other reasons, you should bring them up.

Maybe I hit send too hastily once again, I just meant to remind the town to take "we should think this of this" posts with a grain of salt. For some reason your choices of words rubbed me the wrong way / sounded too much like guiding town and I got worried of malicious intent. This all should obvious enough though, given we still only know our own roles.

Fwiw, mafia voting someone just to confuse town or to cast suspicion on someone sounds overly complicated to me. Mayyyybe if the mafia was like def, yuma and michaeldb and literally none of them ever got suspected or anything. (Yes, I mean to say that if I was mafia, I would have at least suggested killing Robz. I mean, mafia just wants to survive the day and probably kills people who makes that less likely? Thats how I reason it IRL at least.)

I think our best bet is trying to figure out who has reason to kill Robz and I do realize I'm probably first on that list. That being said, I know I'm clean so turning my sights to the second on that list. Maybe I should reread some of the stuff Robz wrote, I recall him being suspicious of me, Dsell and Volt as was alredy noted.

I still cant fathom Volt being mafia given how helpful he is (this might be a dangerious assumption though, I guess you only have to play one game when someone just completely fools everyone as mafia to not think like this but I yet havent) so I guess I am most suspicious of Dsell. (Dont even mean this as an accusation post you'd have to answer Dsell, merely telling people my thoughts). I just realized I probably wont be able to post for 15 hours so decided to postpone sleeps to get this in, zzz now.

.. oh you posted something @that:
Maybe Robz was right about stuff and mafia got scared? Have to read his posts again sometime tomorrow.

[jotheonah]

Rereading Robz and CF's posts is definitely a good idea. And we also have access to two bandwagons with confirmed town as their targets. So we start the day with a lot of info. Just a matter of when we have time to look at it.

[Voltgloss]

I will post my full case against him if it interests people, but I think it's enough to know I was wrong, and I'm sorry to have hurt town.

J, I would be interested to hear your full case against Captain_Frisk.  Thanks.

[jotheonah]

Here you go, V. I had it all ready to go. Figured I should be accountable no matter how he flipped.

Looking through Day 1, CF consistently stayed off most people's radars, yet he voted early and often. It's easy to get the vibe, looking through his posts, of a mafia fishing around for a vote that would stick.

191 - Early vote, but chose the most talkative town member? interesting pick, since the most talkative town is someone the mafia would want gone.
251 - joined Morgrim bandwagon
332 - votes me, pretty easily
388 - pops in after a long absence pretty much to remind us he's here, remind us of the deadline (kind of a VOTE VOTE VOTE vibe)
393 - votes AGAIN, for Robz
then he digs in for a long time on Robz, during which he looks like a possible wagon. Then he fades into the background/AFK until
611 - joins the Galzria wagon
743 - digs in even more on Galz, for not good reasons
747 -

At this point, I'm willing to vote for any of robs, galzria, or j, and will monitor the situation as evening progresses. 

he says this, which is pretty scummy
783 - he actually votes Galzria, and with a lot of scummy reservations and hedging about how he could be wrong

So what does all this prove? It proves I'm pretty bad at scumhunting, I'm afraid. My case against CF made SENSE. It was advocated, at various times, by O, Robz, and eHalycon, so I didn't feel like I was being a total maverick. But it turned out to be wrong. As did my case against Galzria. So you guys will understand if I hesitate to take the lead in today's accusations.

[yuma]

Man that was a lot reading. In an attempt to catch up with everything I put this together. It is a list of everyone that voted and the order that they voted.

Captain Frisk: 1Galzria; 5mogrim7; 11jotheonah; 14Robz; 34Galzria
Eevee: 2yuma; 33Galzria;
michaeljb: 3yuma; 20jotheonah
O: 4morgrim7; 16Eevee; 30Galzria;
Morgrim7: 6def; 9O; 24jotheonah; 37Galzria
yuma: 7morgrim7; 19jotheonah
jotheonah: 8O; 18def; 22Robz; 27Eevee; 31Galzria;
Galzria: 10O; 15jotheonah; 25 jotheonah; 28Robz; 32Galzria; 35jotheonah
Dsell: 12Robz; 36jotheonah
eHaylcon: 13O; 29:Galzria
Robz: 17Eevee
Voltgloss: 21Robz; 23jotheonah; 26jotheonah;

What I took out of it was this:

1. CFrisk had votes all over the place. Galzria did as well. They are now both dead so I am not sure what this means.
2. Morgrim likes the bandwagons. Aside from his initial "random" vote he jumped on the Robz, Galzria and O trains.
3. Everyone who placed a vote on Eevee already had vote(s) on them. I am not saying their votes lacked suspicion but each one could have also been a deflection vote away from them to Eevee.
4. jotheonah had the most votes cast for him throughout the entire day at 9. Galzria had 8. If jot is town we were lucky to escape with him alive. If he isn't we missed a great opportunity.
5. def didn't vote at all it appears. So I think we need to give Axxle a clean sheet coming in.

[Axxle]

Well, I hate beating around the bush when I have solid information so I'll just come out and say it: I am a Town Rolecop: Jotheonah has no role he is lying. That means he is likely a Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer variant that is hidden from role checks.

Vote: Jotheonah