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[eHalcyon]

Expansion sets are usually defined by their victory card and cursing card, playing on their themes.  It would suggest something like this...

Ravine ($X - Victory):  Worth 1 VP per every X card in the trash

Plague ($X - Action - Attack):  Trash this Card.  Each Other Player Reveals Their Hand and Gains A Curse for Each Victory Card in Hand (or Shows a Hand with No Victory Cards)

There might not be a Curser in this game, what with Ruins and all.  Hard to say!

[play2draw]

There might not be a Curser in this game, what with Ruins and all.  Hard to say!

That's what I was thinking. There are only eight cards that directly give out curses. With 35 cards in this set, who's to say that Dark Ages won't have 6-8 "ruinous" cards?

[Grujah]

Hmm..

Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
2VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Estate
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*

Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.

[eHalcyon]

Hmm..

Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
3VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Duchy
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*

Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.

I like this idea, but I think it would be overkill to have four different Ruins cards.  And if they did it, I'd like to think that Colony would be untouched (since Colonies are way across the sea).

Your Ruined Duchy should be 2VP, right?  And the second one should be Ruined Estate.

[Grujah]

Yeah, c/p errors.

[werothegreat]

Hmm..

Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
2VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Estate
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*

Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*

Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.

How do you extend that to other Victory cards?  What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something?  I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins.  And if they're a different color, my money is on red.

[eHalcyon]

How do you extend that to other Victory cards?  What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something?  I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins.  And if they're a different color, my money is on red.

He did say "Basic" victory cards.

I will guess that Ruins will be a medium-dark grey or a drab green.

[Morgrim7]

I am guessing some...black? Or some darker color...
Most likely not grey, Actions are grey already.

[Grujah]

...
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.

How do you extend that to other Victory cards?  What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something?  I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins.  And if they're a different color, my money is on red.

Either:
a) hits only basic card, as I said or
b) you luck out, your Gardens just go to waste. (Barbs discourage alternate victories)

[eHalcyon]

I am guessing some...black? Or some darker color...
Most likely not grey, Actions are grey already.

Well, that's why I said dark grey.

[werothegreat]

Cards that require either cards to be gained...  here's a thought:

Tourna-DarkAges-ment
Action - $4
+1 Action
Every player reveals a Curse.
If you do, discard it, and gain a Dark Ages Prize.
If no one else does, +$1, +1 Card.
--------------
In games using this, add Super Curser as an extra Kingdom pile.

Super Curser
Action-Attack - $2
Discard a card.  Each other player gains a Curse.

Then the Dark Ages Prizes are all sorts of wackiness. 

My original idea was to have one card both deal out Curses and do the Prize-gaining thing, but that would just cause too much AP as you try to decide whether Cursing an opponent is worth potentially giving them a Prize.  At any rate, Super Curser combos with Tunnel.

[NoMoreFun]

For cards that care about the trash, I'm thinking there'll be a trade route like card like

Squat:
Cost: 5
You may trash a card from your hand
Search the trash pile for cards costing 5 or more
If you find at least one:
Action: +2 actions
Treasure: +2 coin, +1 buy
Victory: +2 cards

So you can get an extremely powerful card, but at the opportunity cost of buying and trading strong cards. Then your opponents can profit off your hard work.

[NoMoreFun]

Or even more simply, an action/victory trasher that gives victory points based off the size of the trash pile. Or, more interestingly, the total cost of it. The trash pile is shared, so anything based off it gets the "interactive without attacks" thing going, which IMO makes for the most fun cards.

[NoMoreFun]

Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;

Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.

[cayvie]

Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;

Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.

I don't think they'll make cards that make card-destruction pins easier.

[NoMoreFun]

Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;

Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.

I don't think they'll make cards that make card-destruction pins easier.

Note the card draw, so your hand is always the same size after the attack.
Noble Brigand was an outtake from this set, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more trashing attacks. So far we have Thief, Swindler, Saboteur, Pirate Ship and Noble Brigand.

I'm also thinking we'll get a village type card that trashes heavily. Something like +2 actions, +1 Card, Trash 2 cards which will be godly early game but become a liability to build an engine out of. There hasn't been a card yet where trashing is a flaw (except maybe lookout, but only because you don't know what you might have to trash).

[werothegreat]

Donald X is going to be previewing THREE cards per day, from August 6th to 10th!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/813760/where-are-the-spoilers

[werothegreat]

Also - more on the speculation side - I'd like to see a +2 Actions attack, so I can play a board with all Attacks.  It most likely would not draw any cards, given that cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.  It could even be something mild, like a Spy or Bureaucrat style thing - I'd just really like to play an all Attacks board.

While we're at it, I think a $2 Attack might be interesting as well, both to round out my fantasy board, and because I think a cheap Attack would fit well with the Dark Ages feel.

[blueblimp]

cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.

...Spy. But for good attacks that is true.

Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.

[GendoIkari]

cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.

...Spy. But for good attacks that is true.

Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.

Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.

[werothegreat]

cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.

...Spy. But for good attacks that is true.

Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.

Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.

But Minion, like Militia, only does damage once per turn.

[eHalcyon]

cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.

...Spy. But for good attacks that is true.

Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.

Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.

Possible solutions -- It could give Crossroads-style +actions, where it only works on first play.  It could be a disappearing village, so spamming them would be bad without another drawing card.

As far as a Militia-Village attack goes, I think it would be neater if it DID stack, to an extent.  So instead of "discard down to 3", make it "each other with more than 3 cards in hand discards 1 card", thus stacking twice.

[LastFootnote]

As far as a Militia-Village attack goes, I think it would be neater if it DID stack, to an extent.  So instead of "discard down to 3", make it "each other with more than 3 cards in hand discards 1 card", thus stacking twice.

I agree, but probably the best type of cantrip attack-that-stacks-up-to-a-point is Spy/Scrying Pool. You can be hit by a lot of them, and it stacks up until you hit a card that they want you to put back.

[werothegreat]

Another thing - we've only ever had Action-Attacks.  I don't see how a Victory-Attack could possibly work, but a Treasure-Attack could.  It would have to be expensive and/or innocuous in order to be balanced, but it would still cause Moat, Secret Chamber, Lighthouse and Horse Traders to react, unlike IGG.

[NoMoreFun]

The attack would have to be pretty weak or else it might end up comboing too well with Torturer, Rabble and Margrave (or even Ghost Ship and Witch) to make engines. It will be incredibly easy to chain the attack village itself, so they can't chain too well.
Hell, maybe the "attack" could actually be helpful. I like it when I have a moat in hand but I don't reveal it because I can get something out of the attack (such as discarding tunnels off a militia), or when attacks end up "backfiring" (like swindling a peddler into a province because the peddler pile was empty). Something like:


Poorhouse
Cost: 4
+2 Actions
+1 Coin
Each other player discards a card and gains a copper, putting it into his hand

Or even get rid of the discard and make it cheaper. The complete opposite of stacking.