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Author Topic: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?  (Read 2890 times)

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dor

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Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« on: May 14, 2012, 03:01:19 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/13/game-20120513-220823-4addb027.html

I didn't really have a solid strategy. At first I though I'd buy lots of Alchemists and add a Masquerade, but at turn 3, not having enough money for an Alchemist, went for a Chapel which was probably a wise choice. I only had one $3p hand which caused me to give up on Alchemists after the first one.

I didn't have much use for the Masquerade, using it only twice to trash two estates and passing junk to my opponent which might have stalled him a bit.

I trashed the Masquerade on turn 9, and by turn 11 I got rid of all my estates and coppers, leaving my deck with an Alchemist, 2 Cartographers, 2 Golds, a Silver, a Potion and a Chapel. I used the Cartographers to sift through my decks, moving away the Provinces and Chapel so that every turn I'll have $8p for buying a Province and keeping my Alchemist. I ended up buying 6 Provinces from turn 11 to 16, winning the game.

Was the Masquerade necessary? Should I have opened Silver-Potion? Chapel-Potion? Silver-Chapel and ignore Alchemist?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 03:06:32 am by dor »
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DStu

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 03:23:51 am »
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There's too much going on here to say that you should have taken a different opening.

First, my feeling is that you got quite good draws, I wouldn't expect 1 Alchemist, 2 Cathographers, and $8money to get 6 Provinces in a row.

With only 1 Alchemist the Potion seems a bit like a waste, but I think you need to open with it in this set. There's Vineyards, and there are Alchemists, Hamlets, Scheme, Cathographers, Oasis, which could all be picked up for it, but which all also kind of want large handsizes. Hamlet+Masq don't give you that, for this route you want the Alchemists. There's also Fool's Gold which would profit from large handsizes, in combination with Chapel.
There's also Gardens for even more points on the table, so if you go for Provinces you have to expect that you must grab all 8 of them. That's not a good idea here I would guess, so you should prepare for an engine, so you should take the Alchemists, so you open Potion.

Masquerade can be combined with Potion very well. You open Treasure, so there's not the problem of collision, and it gives you enough draw to buy the Alchemist. If the oponent opens Chapel, he might take some tough decisions of which good card to pass you. Especially if he wants to pile Alchemists on his deck...


So I think I would also have opened Potion/Masq here, don't know if I would have taken the Chapel also later, probably Cathographers should work well enough, so that this deck can run with light trashing. The alternate Victorypoints are huge here, I think I would have loaded with Hamlets and other Cantrips, and go for Vineyards and Gardens.
But if you would have continued with your pace on the Provinces, my way would certainly lose.
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Powerman

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 07:42:40 am »
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Why did you want to trash your masquerade?  It was the only terminal (well... chapel) and using cartographer you could pretty well control what you drew from it.  It would have made to get some good cards from him when he returned many alchemists to the top and would have completely wrecked any chance he had.
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dor

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 08:05:03 am »
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Why did you want to trash your masquerade?

I trashed it when I only had 4 coppers left, taking two along with it. I figured keeping it so I can slowly pass four coppers to him wasn't worth the risk of having to pass the accidental good card or not getting enough coins to start getting provinces.
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Robz888

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 02:16:50 pm »
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Your opening is wrong because of the Potion, not the Masquerade. Alchemist is a huge trap card. In a regular game, like this one, it is too slow. So unless you were specifically going for a VIneyards strategy--which was definitely possible here, but probably too slow--don't bother with the potion.

Silver/Masquerade is reliable and fast, and it punishes an opponent who gets Chapel. So I would probably go that route.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 03:03:08 pm »
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Your opening is wrong because of the Potion, not the Masquerade. Alchemist is a huge trap card. In a regular game, like this one, it is too slow. So unless you were specifically going for a VIneyards strategy--which was definitely possible here, but probably too slow--don't bother with the potion.

Silver/Masquerade is reliable and fast, and it punishes an opponent who gets Chapel. So I would probably go that route.
While I agree with you that vineyards may not succeed here, I disagree with the reasoning.  Hamlets offers huge amounts of +buys at your disposal, Fool's gold allows for very cheap source of money while chapel eliminates all trash.  This should allow you to accumulate huge amounts of actions quite easily and allow the alchemist player to comeback.  (I understand you probably were speaking directly to poster, in which case yes potion is horrible for one alchemist, silver would have worked much better with the same idea). 

The biggest problem with that plan is that masquerade blows it up so hard.  Alchemist for obvious reasons but even just having mass amounts of actions will force you to feed him many of the cards you need.  It's a shame because this kingdom without masquerade would be incredibly fun, balancing gardens/vineyards with three piles. 
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Geronimoo

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 03:06:28 pm »
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Masquerade/Fool's Gold is going to make for an extremely fast game. Don't think anything can beat this.
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Robz888

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Re: Was it wise to open Masquerade-Potion?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 03:09:22 pm »
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Yeah, on second thought, maybe Masq/Fool's Gold. I am not sure I have ever played a masq/fg game (well, maybe I have but I can't remember). But it sounds good. Although either masq/fg or masq/silver will beat an opponent who heads for Alchemist here, I am quite sure.
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