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[GendoIkari]

So I was playing around with the iOS Dominion app; and I came across a Woodcutter / Gardens setup against 1 AI. I went Woodcutter / Gardens, and got destroyed. I managed to end the game with 8 Gardens worth 3 (maybe 4?) each, but he already had 6 Provinces and some Duchies (I think just going mostly BM, I don't really remember).

But I realized I didn't know what I was doing. With Workshop / Gardens, you can Workshop Workshops and empty out Workshop, Gardens, and Estates pretty quickly. I've read that Woodcutter / Gardens is powerful too, but what's the tactics? Is Woodcutter the 3rd pile you should try to empty? Having a deck full of Woodcutters isn't nearly as good as a deck full of Workshops; because you can't guarantee to get a Gardens every hand.

[O]

Woodcutter -> Silver + copper are you first few buys, or woodcutter -> woodcutter + copper

[GendoIkari]

I definitely did that. Bought a Copper every time I had an extra buy, too. But I had a lot of trouble getting a third pile gone.

[popsofctown]

I can't recall a successful Gardens rush I've seen without Workshop or Ironworks.  As in, a blazing fast rush, the kind that would try to empty a terminal pile just to end the game.

I am also very interested in learning about other Gardens rushes. 

[def]

On garden rushes:
Three piles are 26+-2 cards (Gardens, Estates, ...).
Without gainers, you probably can't get more than 2 cards at turn, or (maybe with Woodcutter or Pawn) at least not more than two cards that aren't Coppers. Especially something like Gardens+non-Copper is pretty unlikely.
During your opening two turns, you won't get more than 2 cards for the piles.
So you have to get 26 cards from turn 3 on, let's say 8 Gardens+8 Coppers on 8 turns and 10, say, Woodcutter or Pawns+8 Estates on 9 turns, which also means you have to get 17 turns with at least 4$ in a row which won't happen.

Even if it happens, you'll end the game in this case on turn 19 with 38 cards in deck, 8 Gardens and 11 Estates. Let's say you hit 40+ cards thanks to Pawn (though I don't know where the money comes from if you use Pawn for +Action+Buy, or Hamlet instead, or or or).
This means you have 43 points in ~20 turns with more than optimal, close to impossible draws. An opponent with 6 Provinces and 2 Duchies still wins here, and this should be more than possible in 20 turns.

So I don't think a Gardens "rush" in the case (+buy action as support only, no engine) you had could work. You probably should buy more Silvers early on, but than it's even less a rush, and you can only win if your opponent can't pile all the Provinces himself or, while still leading, end the games on piles.

[Geronimoo]

Woodcutter/Gardens isn't viable. Just too slow emptying the piles. Bureaucrat/Gardens works, but it's not a rush deck. If your opponent goes for some Big Money deck than you need to get a few Bureaucrats (like 5) before pounding the Gardens. All the Silvers will give you the occasional Province and hopefully your BM opponent stalls out before he can get all the Provinces. The longer the game goes the better for you.

[Lekkit]

Woodcutter/Gardens is really good in multiplayer games where more than one person goes for the rush since there will then be at least one other player helping you empty the Gardens.

[GendoIkari]

Woodcutter/Gardens isn't viable. Just too slow emptying the piles. Bureaucrat/Gardens works, but it's not a rush deck. If your opponent goes for some Big Money deck than you need to get a few Bureaucrats (like 5) before pounding the Gardens. All the Silvers will give you the occasional Province and hopefully your BM opponent stalls out before he can get all the Provinces. The longer the game goes the better for you.

Guess I just misremembered stuff I had read here before; I thought Woodcutteer + Gardens was a strong strategy and I was just misplayng it.

[DG]

I'd guess that the woodcutter gardens deck has to take duchies as well. If an opponent take gardens very early you might still be better trying to sustain your deck a little better and score on the duchies. I knocked up this simulator script quickly that is about even with a smithy + more treasure script.

Code: [Select]

<player name="Woodcutter/gardens"
 author="DG"
 description="First attempt woodcutter/gardens script">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
   <buy name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countTurns"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="6.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gardens">
      <condition>
         <left type="countTurns"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="6.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countEmptyPiles"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Woodcutter">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Woodcutter"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Woodcutter">
      <condition>
         <left type="countEmptyPiles"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
   <buy name="Copper"/>
</player>




[qmech]

Woodcutter got a fairly high billing next to Workshop in some of the early blog articles.

I also viewed it as somewhat interchangeable with Workshop, but no longer know where I picked up that idea.

[ksf_]

I've never seen it work effectively.

[chwhite]

For the longest time I tried to make a Woodcutter/Gardens rush work, and failed literally every single time that my opponent didn't make the same mistake.

It's just not a viable combo, and the fact that I succumbed to its temptation for so long is, I suspect, a primary reason why both a) I have a pretty bad "Effect With" for Woodcutter, and b) tend to not think that highly of alt-VP cards, at least compared to other strong players like WW.

Now, Woodcutter can be a fruitful part of a longer, more involved Gardens strategy- you just shouldn't rush those two cards without other support.