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[Robz888]

Unless I am mistaken that is 4 votes for theory. Just so so one can get away with an "accidental" lynch here.

Who cast the last two votes for him? Bandwagoners! They must be mafia!

Atrocious sarcasm when if you read my posts I had implicated both FTL and Theory, and that there are actually only 3 votes for theory. 

There are 4 votes for theory.  Don't get confused now!

This is insane. There is little reason to suspect Theory and every reason to suspect TINAS. I can't believe this.

[O]

This is insane. There is little reason to suspect Theory and every reason to suspect TINAS. I can't believe this.

"Every reason to suspect TINAS"

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

Campaign-drivers are more likely overall to be mafia than the general population. Thats my "little reason".

[Robz888]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

[O]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

...And you honestly think that wasn't said to just be ironic/sarcastic, a remark on how he felt condemned like a day into discussion?

[Robz888]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

...And you honestly think that wasn't said to just be ironic/sarcastic, a remark on how he felt condemned like a day into discussion?

No, I think it was a strategic move to desperately try to save himself.

I guess you're the one who thinks he "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies."

[Axxle]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

...And you honestly think that wasn't said to just be ironic/sarcastic, a remark on how he felt condemned like a day into discussion?

No, I think it was a strategic move to desperately try to save himself.

I guess you're the one who thinks he "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies."

I'm in that camp too, otherwise he'd be hammered right about now.

[O]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

...And you honestly think that wasn't said to just be ironic/sarcastic, a remark on how he felt condemned like a day into discussion?

No, I think it was a strategic move to desperately try to save himself.

I guess you're the one who thinks he "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies."

He wasn't trolling. He was being sarcastic. And quoting me paraphrasing other people is inanely stupid in any form of debate, even mafia.

[Robz888]

There's no well-articulated argument about why we should suspect TINAS, other than "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies", both of which are terrible arguments.

This baffles me. Have you not been reading what I've said and what theory says? TINAS tried everything, and eventually offered to vote for himself. At this point he looked like a dead man. He was totally hoping that someone would say, "He would vote for himself? Can't be mafia!" Instead, Axxle told him to go ahead and do it.

And then he didn't.

It reads desperate mafia gambit to me.

...And you honestly think that wasn't said to just be ironic/sarcastic, a remark on how he felt condemned like a day into discussion?

No, I think it was a strategic move to desperately try to save himself.

I guess you're the one who thinks he "he trolls and seems not to care if he dies."

He wasn't trolling. He was being sarcastic. And quoting me paraphrasing other people is inanely stupid in any form of debate, even mafia.

You were saying that the people who voted for TINAS did so out of no real conviction that he was mafia, just that was trolling and not caring and it annoyed us. I am trying to explain the serious and strategic reasons for why I think TINAS is mafia. And I was pointing out that you are the one giving TINAS no credit... not me, an accuser of TINAS.

[O]

You were saying that the people who voted for TINAS did so out of no real conviction that he was mafia, just that was trolling and not caring and it annoyed us. I am trying to explain the serious and strategic reasons for why I think TINAS is mafia. And I was pointing out that you are the one giving TINAS no credit... not me, an accuser of TINAS.

I'm not giving him no credit. I see no evidence of trolling, and pretty much only reasonable posts.

[popsofctown]

Whenever 0 goes out to eat, he pays in nothing but Copper.  He is an irritating patron.

Vote Count
(4) theory - Davio, Thisisnotasmile, O, Axxle
(3) Thisisnotasmile - theory, Ozle, Robz888

[O]

I'll change my vote from ftl to Vote:Theory.

[Axxle]

Hm. Fine, Unvote.

[O]

Hm. Fine, Unvote. I am very likely to reconsider that later if I have a chance to drop the hammer on him, though. I have other suspicions now, but need to reread some old stuff to make sure and don't have time until later today for htat

[popsofctown]

Fixed.

I advise everyone to read this thread, since I prefer that to half of you doing so and half of you not doing so:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2576.msg40781#new
Mafia I was discussed a bit more than I'd like to happen outside this thread in the future.

[popsofctown]

For those of you reading this thread and fighting urges to post in it, a spectator quicktopic is now available.  PM me for a link to a quicktopic where you can discuss the goings on of this game with fellow DSers and perhaps me.

[Robz888]

Okay, let's think about this. If theory is mafia, the other mafia has to be someone who is not currently voting for him. It's been a slow growth of votes for theory, and it seems crazy that theory's fellow mafia would get on the bandwagon against his partner when until very recently, lynching TINAS instead was almost a foregone conclusion.

So if you do believe theory is mafia, you would be required to believe that the other mafia is Ozle, ftl, Goober, or me. Right now, me and Ozle are the only people (along with theory) actively voting or TINAS, so we are likelier candidates.

However, I don't believe theory and Ozle could both be mafia. Theory voted TINAS and Ozle did so the very next post. For mafia to do that, it would be such transparent bandwagoning... there's no way they would actually do that, unless they were huge, huge, huge amateurs. So I don't see how it's possible.

Theory and Ozle were the first people to get on my TINAS bandwagon after Axxle, so again, I find it hard to believe that two of the three of us would be mafia, and would play so boldly and bandwagon-y against TINAS.

Also, I just don't suspect Goober. I just don't.

So in my view, theory and ftl would be the only logical mafia pair, if you believe theory is mafia. Which I don't.

[goober]

What the hell? Seriously, how hard is it for people to control themselves? I am VERY against there being a semi-public discussion thread about this game. And I'm a little pissed that people in this game had been a part of one, especially without mentioning it here. Reading the posts it doesn't look like it was done with bad intent, but that is the sort of thing you mention to the people in the real thread as it is clearly a grey area at the very least. I think we should have the rule that there is NO commenting about this game anywhere other than this thread, and not by anyone other than alive players and the mod. Is that so hard? Let us have our fun and if you want to have some of your own go start another game. Wouldn't it be more fun to play than to watch and comment anyway? Mod'ing isn't THAT hard (no offense pops, and thanks for the heads up about this other thread). We can all discuss the ins and outs of what happened when the game is officially over, but until then, this semi-public sister thread can do no good for this game.

[popsofctown]

The quicktopic is offsite, I don't see concern about it being semipublic.  A spectator could pm a link to a player, but I'd trust the player to delete it the way I trust the mafia not to pm eachother right now.

I think I did mention the rule about out of thread discussion, but I'll check the rules to see..

It's a rule, as of now.

EDIT: #5 needs interpretation to forbid it, but it seems clear enough.

[O]

Okay, let's think about this. If theory is mafia, the other mafia has to be someone who is not currently voting for him. It's been a slow growth of votes for theory, and it seems crazy that theory's fellow mafia would get on the bandwagon against his partner when until very recently, lynching TINAS instead was almost a foregone conclusion.

So if you do believe theory is mafia, you would be required to believe that the other mafia is Ozle, ftl, Goober, or me. Right now, me and Ozle are the only people (along with theory) actively voting or TINAS, so we are likelier candidates.

However, I don't believe theory and Ozle could both be mafia. Theory voted TINAS and Ozle did so the very next post. For mafia to do that, it would be such transparent bandwagoning... there's no way they would actually do that, unless they were huge, huge, huge amateurs. So I don't see how it's possible.

Theory and Ozle were the first people to get on my TINAS bandwagon after Axxle, so again, I find it hard to believe that two of the three of us would be mafia, and would play so boldly and bandwagon-y against TINAS.

Also, I just don't suspect Goober. I just don't.

So in my view, theory and ftl would be the only logical mafia pair, if you believe theory is mafia. Which I don't.

And whose the logical counterpart to TINAS? Me or Axxle?

My rankings, reiterated:

Ftl
Theory
Robz888
Goober
<insert player whose name I forgot here>
Davio
Axxle
TINAS
O

[Robz888]

Okay, let's think about this. If theory is mafia, the other mafia has to be someone who is not currently voting for him. It's been a slow growth of votes for theory, and it seems crazy that theory's fellow mafia would get on the bandwagon against his partner when until very recently, lynching TINAS instead was almost a foregone conclusion.

So if you do believe theory is mafia, you would be required to believe that the other mafia is Ozle, ftl, Goober, or me. Right now, me and Ozle are the only people (along with theory) actively voting or TINAS, so we are likelier candidates.

However, I don't believe theory and Ozle could both be mafia. Theory voted TINAS and Ozle did so the very next post. For mafia to do that, it would be such transparent bandwagoning... there's no way they would actually do that, unless they were huge, huge, huge amateurs. So I don't see how it's possible.

Theory and Ozle were the first people to get on my TINAS bandwagon after Axxle, so again, I find it hard to believe that two of the three of us would be mafia, and would play so boldly and bandwagon-y against TINAS.

Also, I just don't suspect Goober. I just don't.

So in my view, theory and ftl would be the only logical mafia pair, if you believe theory is mafia. Which I don't.

And whose the logical counterpart to TINAS? Me or Axxle?

My rankings, reiterated:

Ftl
Theory
Robz888
Goober
<insert player whose name I forgot here>
Davio
Axxle
TINAS
O

Or Davio.

[ftl]

I just went back and reread the thread from the start, from the moment we got new roles. Everything looks different with fresh eyes.

Of course, it just ends up being more confusing and I no longer have any idea who to vote for I'm not very good at this.

[goober]

Sure there is already a certain degree of trust in each others sportsmanship here, but I don't think that's really an argument for creating additional temptation and opportunity to cheat. And I assume illegal PM's would be visible to someone like theory if he goes back to look after the game. In this quicktopic, is anything stopping a player from making a fake account or using an existing alternate account and reading the topic? I mean this creates the opportunity for a SINGLE player to cheat, which is more likely than two people collaborating to cheat with PM's. I'm sure this sounds paranoid, but I just see this whole quicktopic situation as creating an unnecessary potential problem. It sounds like I'm being overruled here by pops, which is fine. That's his prerogative as mod. I just wanted a chance to air my opinion, and I'm fine with dropping it there. Back to the actual game...

[O]

Sure there is already a certain degree of trust in each others sportsmanship here, but I don't think that's really an argument for creating additional temptation and opportunity to cheat. And I assume illegal PM's would be visible to someone like theory if he goes back to look after the game. In this quicktopic, is anything stopping a player from making a fake account or using an existing alternate account and reading the topic? I mean this creates the opportunity for a SINGLE player to cheat, which is more likely than two people collaborating to cheat with PM's. I'm sure this sounds paranoid, but I just see this whole quicktopic situation as creating an unnecessary potential problem. It sounds like I'm being overruled here by pops, which is fine. That's his prerogative as mod. I just wanted a chance to air my opinion, and I'm fine with dropping it there. Back to the actual game...

Whats to stop a cop from PMing someone who he inspected or something similar currently? Mafia is inherently based on having a shred of respect for your opponents.. I assume that in my real life games nobody peeks at night.

[popsofctown]

It's common practice on mafiascum, and it rarely causes issues.  I have a high opinion of this community.

[goober]

Well for one I would think most people would just call him out immediately and we'd start the game over. This situation is different in that the cheater doesn't need an in-game partner to gain an advantage.