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[popsofctown]

Ending Day 1 slightly early due to the pattern of my convenience here.


A cool breeze blew through the Gardens this morning.  Everyone woke up and looked around to see who was still ok.  Someone was missing... goober.  They looked around goober's Estates, then in his tomato Garden.  He lay dead, face up, with a pointed crucifix jabbed through his heart.

A note lay on him.  "No piling on my watch."

goober was a vanilla townie, with no powers.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Ending Day 1 slightly early due to the pattern of my convenience here.


goober died

flavor later maybe

Needs more flavour...

And a revealing of Goober's role (I assume vanilla town otherwise you probably would have mentioned).

[ftl]

Well, now it's time to go back over the old conversation, and reread it through the lens of knowing that the Mafia knew full well that goober and Theory were both vanilla townies.

Assuming goober is a vanilla townie and not a cop. (Mafia II got off to a terrible start, with a night-1 cop-kill...) 

Also hoping our cop will subtly push us in the right direction... if he knows a right direction.

[O]

I am extremely disappointed in my fellow townies.  For three more of you to be fooled by their FUD is astonishing to me, and quite dismaying.

Please, Please post them on the quicktopic now so when it turns out you're wrong we can all reference this ridiculous post 

As my death approaches, it has become blatantly obvious to me who the real mafia are.  I leave it up to you all to avenge my death.  I pray that in the night, we are able to protect those that are true townies, those that are not so easily manipulated by the mafia.

At least we lynched a pretty terrible townie, one who allegedly deliberately doesn't help his fellow team.

I don't feel bad about my vote, actually. I'm still relatively confident that TINAS is not mafia.... and theory was acting very suspicious. Theory did next to nothing to respond to accusations against him. This is unhelpful to the town, not the mafia (the mafia have the information already...)


I didn't lynch goober (mandatory preface...) but I believe goober was lynched because we had the least amount of information on him.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Also hoping our cop will subtly push us in the right direction... if he knows a right direction.

If we have a cop...

I didn't lynch goober (mandatory preface...) but I believe goober was lynched because we had the least amount of information on him.

I get the feeling he was killed because he was making long, sense-filled posts that actually pointed to the mafia.

[Robz888]

Good morning, you fools.

As I said over and over and over and over and over again, Theory had done nothing to make himself particularly suspicious, other than accusing who actually was suspicious.

Theory voters, you've got some explaining to do. That's Axxle, Davio, O, TINAS, and Ftl. It's essentially a certainty that both mafia are among these 5 people.

As I said earlier Axxle stands out to me as someone leading the game, doing a lot of hedging, and generally acting suspiciously. And hey, I still find TINAS suspicious.

[O]

Good morning, you fools.

As I said over and over and over and over and over again, Theory had done nothing to make himself particularly suspicious, other than accusing who actually was suspicious.

Theory voters, you've got some explaining to do. That's Axxle, Davio, O, TINAS, and Ftl. It's essentially a certainty that both mafia are among these 5 people.

As I said earlier Axxle stands out to me as someone leading the game, doing a lot of hedging, and generally acting suspiciously. And hey, I still find TINAS suspicious.

1) Theory did everything to make himself suspicious: He did not defend himself
2) Both mafia do not need to be within the 5 people if TINAS is also townie.

[Thisisnotasmile]

I am, too, suspicious of Axxle's hedging but mostly actually of Ftl. Ftl is the guy who wanted me gone because of the person I am, rather than anything game related, and then at the last minute seemed fine to swing completely the other way and drop the hammer on Theory with no real reasoning. I'd like to hear from Ftl about why he did this?

[Davio]

They found no evidence of power in his house, he was just a regular guy.

Does this mean he was a townie? Or is it just there to add flavor?
Also, I presume Goober was a townie. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

I don't mind explaining my vote for Theory, it's just that every single time, and I mean EVERY time, I reaffirmed my suspicions of him and posted them, he did nothing to defend them and just passed the ball to Thisisnotasmile. He became a bit like Thisisnotasmile in the end, not caring whether he lived or died. Well, I don't like playing with people who aren't very helpful. At least Thisisnotasmile can generate a lot of info with a single post.

I have posted suspicions of Axxle earlier and have gone over the topic again.
He started out immediately voting for Thisisnotasmile, but unvoted. Then he immediately voted for Goober, but switched to Theory in the end.
Why the quick votes? I guess it's useful to get some reactions from people, but merely suspecting may work just as well and doesn't carry the risk of an accidental lynch?

I would also like to hear more from FTL.

[Robz888]

Yeah, can we (do we?) get an official ruling on Goober's role?

[Axxle]

Just suspecting does not do as well as voting. Voting gives omph to your argument. And an accidental lynch is exactly what you need to spur players into responding (it's a feature, not a bug).  No one wants to get accidentally lynched, and having votes against you means you have to actively persuade players into unvoting for you or voting for someone else.  Your reaction and others reaction to the vote means that even more information is thrown into the mix, and hey, if you don't have a good enough case to not get lynched, then you just might be mafia and my vote is justified.
It does look like I was hedging, but I really was trying to get information out of TINAS (and other players) and a post out of goober.  I know at one point (during the delayed hammer) I entertained the thought TINAS was mafia but eventually I came to think theory was.  Is it really that weird that I, to some extent, suspected both theory and TINAS when half of everyone else suspected TINAS and the other half suspected theory?
All this talk of "hedging bets" really just sounds like (to me): "Hey!  That guy is looking at all the evidence instead of just sticking to one guy and piling evidence on him.  Let's get'im!"
Also, just to clarify, I was the third person to vote for theory, unlike what pops's story indicates.

At the moment I'm thinking ftl deserves more suspicion than he's previously had.  I'm going to have to reread everything but I won't have much time today and tomorrow because of travel/vacation.\

[Axxle]

It's unfortunate theory didn't want to help us at the end there.  No helping that I guess, it's not like TINAS did much better.

[Ozle]

Why do we think Goober was killed?
I cant see who he voted for, did he even vote?

[Ozle]

Also, i think the killing of Theory means we are all going to find it difficult to cast the first vote on someone now!

[popsofctown]

Goober and theory are both dead vanilla townies.

Flavor added.

[Ozle]

Ok, so my first suspicion has to go out to TINAS still, he hasn't done anything that makes me LESS suspicious, but nothing to do anything more suspicious however, others are gathering ground on him quickly...(now some of this info may be slightly wrong as im doing it from memory as I dont have the time tonight to go through 10 pages of stuff, feel free to correct me, I wont be offended)

O is gaining ground because of his early conviction that FTL was mafia, even going so far as to vote for him, however, when the theory bandwagon became rolling he wasnt too long in changing his vote (although not the hammer it has to be noted). Could be a clever strategy of the O-Ftl fued that both are mafia...although its a risky strategy, but unlikely, more just a bit of tit-for-tat in all probability.

Robz888, he does seem to be leading the people, posting good explanations against quite a few players and a bit of shifting attention around as well, rather than sticking to one. Its not enough to make me too suspicious of him, however it bears to be careful of him as he could be manipulating us all well.

Axxle, first to vote for TINAS, and then switched his vote to Theory when that campaign gathered pace. Although third vote, so actually lessened the chance of a hammer coming down I feel. Does seem to swing a bit much for my liking, but someone before (cant remember who) stated that this is fairly valid to draw out information.

TINAS, TINAS, TINAS. I still dont get your style in the first day, especially the offering to vote for yourself, but not doing it. That just strikes me as plain weird behaviour. You also seemed to jump on whoever was the popular candidate against you (although this makes sense if you were trying to save yourself, but doing it because its not you, rather than who you think is Mafia strikes me as a survival instinct rather than the 'for the town' attitude i think you would normall have)

Basically, if its not TINAS, I have no idea who it is because you are all seeming pretty shifty at the moment, especially those that voted for Theory because I couldnt see what he did wrong in the first place except to vote for TINAS too quickly, which he posted his reasons for and there was no other real suspicion about him. I cant see how he could defend himself from that. If people would like to tell me why they switched thier votes from someone else to Theory, I would be greatful! (Or just wait till tomorrow when I can re-read it all and will come to own conclusions)

Why do we think Goober was killed? I cant see him leading much discussion, and there are people I think are more likely townies.

[O]

Ok, so my first suspicion has to go out to TINAS still, he hasn't done anything that makes me LESS suspicious, but nothing to do anything more suspicious however, others are gathering ground on him quickly...(now some of this info may be slightly wrong as im doing it from memory as I dont have the time tonight to go through 10 pages of stuff, feel free to correct me, I wont be offended)

O is gaining ground because of his early conviction that FTL was mafia, even going so far as to vote for him, however, when the theory bandwagon became rolling he wasnt too long in changing his vote (although not the hammer it has to be noted). Could be a clever strategy of the O-Ftl fued that both are mafia...although its a risky strategy, but unlikely, more just a bit of tit-for-tat in all probability.

Robz888, he does seem to be leading the people, posting good explanations against quite a few players and a bit of shifting attention around as well, rather than sticking to one. Its not enough to make me too suspicious of him, however it bears to be careful of him as he could be manipulating us all well.

Axxle, first to vote for TINAS, and then switched his vote to Theory when that campaign gathered pace. Although third vote, so actually lessened the chance of a hammer coming down I feel. Does seem to swing a bit much for my liking, but someone before (cant remember who) stated that this is fairly valid to draw out information.

TINAS, TINAS, TINAS. I still dont get your style in the first day, especially the offering to vote for yourself, but not doing it. That just strikes me as plain weird behaviour. You also seemed to jump on whoever was the popular candidate against you (although this makes sense if you were trying to save yourself, but doing it because its not you, rather than who you think is Mafia strikes me as a survival instinct rather than the 'for the town' attitude i think you would normall have)

Basically, if its not TINAS, I have no idea who it is because you are all seeming pretty shifty at the moment, especially those that voted for Theory because I couldnt see what he did wrong in the first place except to vote for TINAS too quickly, which he posted his reasons for and there was no other real suspicion about him. I cant see how he could defend himself from that. If people would like to tell me why they switched thier votes from someone else to Theory, I would be greatful! (Or just wait till tomorrow when I can re-read it all and will come to own conclusions)

Why do we think Goober was killed? I cant see him leading much discussion, and there are people I think are more likely townies.

I switched my vote from FTL to theory because I was entirely (and still am mostly) confident that TINAS was not mafia, and it wasn't looking like FTL was going to get voted on. I posted like 10 times that I was equally suspicious of FTL and Theory, both before and after I switched my vote. 

[Thisisnotasmile]

Ok, so my first suspicion has to go out to TINAS still, he hasn't done anything that makes me LESS suspicious, but nothing to do anything more suspicious however, others are gathering ground on him quickly...(now some of this info may be slightly wrong as im doing it from memory as I dont have the time tonight to go through 10 pages of stuff, feel free to correct me, I wont be offended)

O is gaining ground because of his early conviction that FTL was mafia, even going so far as to vote for him, however, when the theory bandwagon became rolling he wasnt too long in changing his vote (although not the hammer it has to be noted). Could be a clever strategy of the O-Ftl fued that both are mafia...although its a risky strategy, but unlikely, more just a bit of tit-for-tat in all probability.

Robz888, he does seem to be leading the people, posting good explanations against quite a few players and a bit of shifting attention around as well, rather than sticking to one. Its not enough to make me too suspicious of him, however it bears to be careful of him as he could be manipulating us all well.

Axxle, first to vote for TINAS, and then switched his vote to Theory when that campaign gathered pace. Although third vote, so actually lessened the chance of a hammer coming down I feel. Does seem to swing a bit much for my liking, but someone before (cant remember who) stated that this is fairly valid to draw out information.

TINAS, TINAS, TINAS. I still dont get your style in the first day, especially the offering to vote for yourself, but not doing it. That just strikes me as plain weird behaviour. You also seemed to jump on whoever was the popular candidate against you (although this makes sense if you were trying to save yourself, but doing it because its not you, rather than who you think is Mafia strikes me as a survival instinct rather than the 'for the town' attitude i think you would normall have)

Basically, if its not TINAS, I have no idea who it is because you are all seeming pretty shifty at the moment, especially those that voted for Theory because I couldnt see what he did wrong in the first place except to vote for TINAS too quickly, which he posted his reasons for and there was no other real suspicion about him. I cant see how he could defend himself from that. If people would like to tell me why they switched thier votes from someone else to Theory, I would be greatful! (Or just wait till tomorrow when I can re-read it all and will come to own conclusions)

Why do we think Goober was killed? I cant see him leading much discussion, and there are people I think are more likely townies.

I look forward to your full analysis. Also still interested in hearing from Ftl. Probably Axxle too.

95% certain O is good at this point.

[Robz888]

Goober was killed because nobody had voiced any lasting suspicions of him. The mafia want to kill anyone presumed innocent and leave alive suspicious players--all the better to distract from their own suspicious activities.

[O]

Suspicion ordering

Ftl (Still)
Ozle
Davio
Robz
Axxle
TINAS
Me!

[ftl]

Oh no! I'm on the top of the suspicion list now   Knew I shouldn't have made a final vote...

Well, TINAS survived being on top of the list for a while, maybe I can too.

Good morning, you fools.

As I said over and over and over and over and over again, Theory had done nothing to make himself particularly suspicious, other than accusing who actually was suspicious.

Theory voters, you've got some explaining to do. That's Axxle, Davio, O, TINAS, and Ftl. It's essentially a certainty that both mafia are among these 5 people.

As I said earlier Axxle stands out to me as someone leading the game, doing a lot of hedging, and generally acting suspiciously. And hey, I still find TINAS suspicious.

I'm not convinced that both Mafia are among those five. I'd be more like to suspect a 1-1 split between Theory and TINAS voters (unless TINAS is himself Mafia).

If both Theory and TINAS are innocent, then the mafia had nothing to gain by ganging up on one of them, and it's better to stay split. (Of course, if TINAS is Mafia, then presumably his partner didn't vote for him, given how close he came to being lynched.)

Axxle is possible. He kept talking as if he were going to vote for TINAS, but wanted someone else to actually finish the job, perhaps so as not to get stuck in the kill-an-innocent bunch like the five of us did? I need to go back and see whether TINAS/Axxle is possible as a mafia pairing - did Axxle jump on the bandwagon once it looked to be certain? Or was he there from the beginning of it?

I am, too, suspicious of Axxle's hedging but mostly actually of Ftl. Ftl is the guy who wanted me gone because of the person I am, rather than anything game related, and then at the last minute seemed fine to swing completely the other way and drop the hammer on Theory with no real reasoning. I'd like to hear from Ftl about why he did this?

Mostly because I cooled down a little, stopped being angry, and realized that voting for someone because I don't like them would pretty much be as bad as a lot of things I dislike. (Especially after someone - O, or Ozle, I think? - basically said the same thing about me, that they didn't like how I play but that wasn't gonna make them vote for me.) Theory was the opposite option, for wanting a quick lynch of TINAS (I actually thought that Robz was much more single-minded about attacking TINAS than Theory was, but Theory seemed not to give much of a justification, like with the pitchforks comment).

Also, TINAS afterwards, after he didn't get lynched when axxle didn't vote for him, said some more reasonable things than he had said previously, or that's the impression I got.

Also, i think the killing of Theory means we are all going to find it difficult to cast the first vote on someone now!

Eh, I don't think so. Other way around, even maybe; next time, we may be less hasty to pull the trigger on someone just because they seem to have wanted to lynch first, since we were mislead before.

TINAS, TINAS, TINAS. I still dont get your style in the first day, especially the offering to vote for yourself, but not doing it. That just strikes me as plain weird behaviour. You also seemed to jump on whoever was the popular candidate against you (although this makes sense if you were trying to save yourself, but doing it because its not you, rather than who you think is Mafia strikes me as a survival instinct rather than the 'for the town' attitude i think you would normall have)

Well, to be fair, if you know you're Town, then anyone-but-you is more likely to be Mafia than you.


People who seem innocent to me:
Me
Robz maybe?

Mafia: everyone else
Maybe TINAS and Axxle at the top of the list?
Davio seems to be habitually uncommitted? I need to go back and reread and see whether he was ever really on one of the bandwagons and agitating for someone in a noticeable way or just staying hidden

[Davio]

I've never been on any bandwagon.

Once I put in my vote for Theory I never changed. I had my own reasons for voting for Theory which I have mentioned over and over. Now that we know he was a vanilla townie, I'm really confused why he didn't try to stay alive more?

For my new suspicions I have to look at anyone who's keeping under the radar.

As to why Goober was killed, I guess it was just because he wasn't so active.
The game has changed for the worse now though, with 2 Mafia remaining among us 7.
I really thought Theory might have been Mafia. It's getting harder now, but we'll suss them out!

[Robz888]

Okay, theory wasn't mafia--something I claimed a whole bunch and no one seemed to hear me. Hear me now!

TINAS and Axxle seem the most like mafia to me. Unfortunately, there's like no way they are both mafia, because Axxle cast the first and immediate vote for TINAS (and I doubt one mafia would do that to another, just because what if that ball gets rolling?).

The thing is, if TINAS were not mafia, I don't know why the mafia wouldn't have dropped the hammer on him earlier. I would think they would just want to lynch this townie, instead of shifting things for it to be some other townie (theory). The votes were there, unless both mafia had voted for him and you still couldn't get a kill. So, wouldn't the mafia be like, Ozle and Ftl, then?

But that's if TINAS is innocent... and I still think he is mafia, which could explain why there was this slow movement toward theory; a co-mafia was driving it. Davio, maybe?

To me, I still cannot fathom TINAS offering to kill himself, being told to do so, and then not doing it. That's something a desperate mafia would do.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Okay let's do this. Was gonna wait for Ozle and Axxle to make a post but I don't really think we need it...


I'm the cop. I need to reveal at some point today regardless (of whether I'm a likely lynch target or not), because if I don't there's a good chance I will be killed at night and will have missed my chance to reveal. Since I know both mafia members had voted for me yesterday (hence the lack of hammer on me), I last night investigated Ozle. 100% no strings guarantee, he is mafia.

With that out of the way that leaves the last mafia being either Ftl or Robz. I also am slightly suspicious of Axxle but he had a chance to hammer me (he posted when he wasn't on the bandwagon for me and there were 4 votes for me), and didn't take it. In my mind, that pretty much rules him out. That leaves it down to Ftl, who I have voiced my suspicions of earlier, and Robz, who doesn't seem so suspicious, but has played before and may be good at covering himself. Maybe we can work together to figure it out?

But for now: vote: Ozle.

It's time for everyone to start searching for Ozle-accomplices. Maybe delay the lynch a bit to give us some time to think, and when I die tonight (do we have a docor? Oh boy do I hope we have a doctor) I wish the rest of the town the best of luck.

Once again I am sorry for getting Theory killed, but at the end of the day, it was better than losing me. I promised I would make it worth your while and I am now delivering.

[Davio]

Would be funny if at this point someone goes: No, I'm the cop!
Would be even more funny if it was Ozle saying he inspected you. 

BTW: If at the end you're still Mafia, Thisisnotasmile, I won't hold it against you.
I won't be stupid enough to trust someone 100%, but at least you can make things interesting. 

Too much info is always better than no info.