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[popsofctown]

Why does it need to be 50-50? I understand that we want a competitive game somewhat, but when 70-80% of the players are on one side its ok to have them win 65% of the time.

Empirically, mafia get so miserable in "rigged" setups it's not a good idea. 

Theoretically, I'd point out that solitaire games aim for a winrate less than 100% so there is no inherent virtue in setting the odds of victory equal to the proportion of the participants.  (If you are just arguing that the imbalance makes it tolerable, well, the fixes are even more tolerable)

[O]

In my experience the mafia are so happy to be part of the "special" group that they don't mind a non50% (but still decent) chance of winning.'

Also, what is your opinion of the crazier roles, see: jester (If Jester gets lynched, he alone wins).

[popsofctown]

In my experience the mafia are so happy to be part of the "special" group that they don't mind a non50% (but still decent) chance of winning.'

Also, what is your opinion of the crazier roles, see: jester (If Jester gets lynched, he alone wins).

There's always that buzz factor.  If your playgroup can supplement the brutal doc-cop combo with human lie detecting, the mafia should lose a lot more than 50% of the games.  Setup balance is dependent on the strength of the players, though. Perhaps your playgroup's mafiosos are cunning enough that the doc-cop-combo is a fun incline to tackle (conventional thinking is generally that experienced playgroups lead to increasingly powerful towns rather than increasingly powerful mafia.  In face to face, this is probably reversed, though)

Jester is a rather old topic of discussion.  Jester is like KC and Possession, for 4$ each, out of a Black Market deck, when you've never heard of the cards before.  It punishes the town for doing what they are supposed to be doing - lynching players not aligned with the town.  Lynching players that don't seem interested in finding scum.  It is bad design for that reason.

Good power roles reward players for using daytime discussion to find scum or town, like the Doctor.  Mediocre power roles at least are neutral about it.  Jester is just bad.

Many other "special" roles are accepted though.  Serial Killer is a one man mafia and has it's own interesting psychological patterns.  Generally the Serial Killer is given a 1 shot "bulletproof vest" to bring him close enough to a 33% chance of his faction's victory so he isn't miserable.  Some people are okay with survivors (must live until mafia or town wins to win.  It's no longer a zero sum game, punishes scumhunting that tends to lead to the survivor, thus I don't approve) and lynchers (must lynch player X to win, then they leave the game.  Similar issues).

Cult is almost as widely unpopular as Jester, if you've heard of that.  It's almost impossible to balance well and can punish what's normally good play.

EDIT: Whoa, Rhombus is citing sources as he discusses Monopoly??

[O]

I've heard of Cult but not Lynchers. I think the dynamics really change when the game is face to face- it's more structured around the social aspect than the game-theory aspect.

I've also done real time mafia (One lynching/murder per day)... Not sure where that falls on the spectrum.

[theory]

Do you Mafia people enjoy playing The Resistance?

[theory]

Also, are you interested in playing a Mafia game on f.ds?

[Ozle]

I would! I recognise the concept but not played it before!

[Robz888]

Also, are you interested in playing a Mafia game on f.ds?

I don't even know what that means. Yes?

[jotheonah]

Count me in!

Also, not to make Rinkworks feel old, but I recognized his name instantly from his website. I played all the adventure games when I was like 15. (I'm 24 now.) I wasted almost as much time there as I do here now.

[goober]

I would love to join in to a game.

[popsofctown]

I could play or moderate a game of mafia. 

I've never heard of The Resistance.  I googled it, but I'm still not sure what it is.  Is it a mafia variant, or a different hidden information kind of game altogether?  There's a difference.  "Conspiracy" is kind of like mafia, but is different in a fundamental way and isn't mafia.  Assassins in the palace is considered by many to be a setup that isn't really mafia (I've never played, but the gist of it is that it's more about figuring out who the town power role is and killing him.)

Most forum mafia players don't play much face to face mafia because they don't enjoy the face reading aspect.  Poker probably absorbs the people looking for that.  So if Resistance is a mafia variant, the answer would be "no".

If it's not actually mafia, it might be something no one's ever thought of, and could be worth playing online.  Or, perhaps, might gel with face to face play better.

EDIT: also, lol at "Mafia" [split from In defense of Monopoly].  Sorry for derailing that thread. 

[theory]

The Resistance is a boardgame based on Mafia, but with more of a logical framework.

[Axxle]

I could play or moderate a game of mafia. 

I've never heard of The Resistance.  I googled it, but I'm still not sure what it is.  Is it a mafia variant, or a different hidden information kind of game altogether?  There's a difference.  "Conspiracy" is kind of like mafia, but is different in a fundamental way and isn't mafia.  Assassins in the palace is considered by many to be a setup that isn't really mafia (I've never played, but the gist of it is that it's more about figuring out who the town power role is and killing him.)

Most forum mafia players don't play much face to face mafia because they don't enjoy the face reading aspect.  Poker probably absorbs the people looking for that.  So if Resistance is a mafia variant, the answer would be "no".

If it's not actually mafia, it might be something no one's ever thought of, and could be worth playing online.  Or, perhaps, might gel with face to face play better.

EDIT: also, lol at "Mafia" [split from In defense of Monopoly].  Sorry for derailing that thread. 

It's not really Mafia.  The biggest difference is that there is no player elimination so it tends to be more popular with a face to face group. (are we going to have to split this Mafia [split from In defense of Monopoly] thread into a Resistance [split from Mafia [split from In defense of Monopoly]] thread?  )

[Robz888]

Okay, are we playing Mafia? I want to play Mafia. I am "in".

[Axxle]

Okay, are we playing Mafia? I want to play Mafia. I am "in".

I'm interested in playing too.  Sounds like it'd be a blast to play with the f.ds persons.

[ftl]

Sure, I'd be in.

Face to face, I'm much more of a fan of Resistance than Mafia. There's actual information in the Resistance; my experience with face to face mafia is that nobody knows anything, people spend half an hour debating over nothing, and then pick someone who to lynch essentially randomly. (I remember at one point I wrote a quick sim to check that, and concluded that yes, in that group, who-to-lynch was being chosen no better than chance.)

Am definitely curious to see whether forum Mafia ends up better, especially since apparently there are some serious players here. 

[Robz888]

Sure, I'd be in.

Face to face, I'm much more of a fan of Resistance than Mafia. There's actual information in the Resistance; my experience with face to face mafia is that nobody knows anything, people spend half an hour debating over nothing, and then pick someone who to lynch essentially randomly. (I remember at one point I wrote a quick sim to check that, and concluded that yes, in that group, who-to-lynch was being chosen no better than chance.)

Am definitely curious to see whether forum Mafia ends up better, especially since apparently there are some serious players here.

Not necessarily true. I usually begin face-to-face mafia by turning to my neighbor, staring at them intensely, and shouting: "Are you the mafia? Are you? ARE YOU???"

Then we judge their reaction, and if it isn't good enough, we kill them. So, better than a random lynching. An unprepared mafia can totally drop the ball when confronted with swift and unexpected accusations. Watch their eyes.

[WrathOfGlod]

I'd play

[ftl]

Not necessarily true. I usually begin face-to-face mafia by turning to my neighbor, staring at them intensely, and shouting: "Are you the mafia? Are you? ARE YOU???"

Then we judge their reaction, and if it isn't good enough, we kill them. So, better than a random lynching. An unprepared mafia can totally drop the ball when confronted with swift and unexpected accusations. Watch their eyes.

Sure, it's not necessarily true. But it was true in that group. I did the simulations, people really were doing no better than chance, even with all the tricks they had accumulated like that.

Which is why I'm looking forward to the forum version, hopefully it's different

[O]

I'd play

[popsofctown]

Resistance may still be classifiable (is that a word?) as mafia even if it doesn't have player elimination.  If you just called lynched and nightkilled players "tagged" instead of dead in mafia, and let them continue discussing, even continue voting, the game would still be essentially the same, an informed minority against the uninformed majority.

[Donald X.]

Not necessarily true. I usually begin face-to-face mafia by turning to my neighbor, staring at them intensely, and shouting: "Are you the mafia? Are you? ARE YOU???"

Scum tell.

VOTE: ROBZ888

[Thisisnotasmile]

Would definitely play mafia on f.ds. Used to play all the time on my old internet-home until we all got old and went to uni (and stopped playing pokemon) and the forum died. I even tried to run a game of The Resistance at one point but nobody seemed interested enough to make it work (One person identified every single spy and named them to me in private and then continued to agree to sending missions with those people on).

[DsnowMan]

Is mafiascum.net still running? I was an old hand there (cubansmoker).

I invented time-traveling mafia. Now that was strategic. At least, I pretended it was.

[Tables]

Also, are you interested in playing a Mafia game on f.ds?

Heck yes

1) Doctor can get killed/lynched
2) If cop claims, Mafia can get a bunch of kills without worrying that the doctor will interfere by not selecting the cop
3) Mafia can claim/counterclaim

It's not really broken.

Here's the problem: As soon as the cop claims, he's immune until the doctor dies. The mafia at this point is EXTREMELY concerned about doctor interference, as he makes the cop invincible. They have no choice but to frantically search for and kill the doctor, as until they do, the cop finds out more and more player alignments. Assuming no counterclaim, as soon as the doctor dies the cop on average can clear 1-3 players (it varies a lot depending on when the doctor dies of course). Having clears is extremely valuable - after the mafia kills the cop, they then have to focus on those clears. And if there are enough clears, the town can just lynch every mafia and win. It leads to a win rate of about 75% or more for the town, ignoring scumhunting and tells, which is just ridiculous.

The mafia pretty much has to counterclaim. And that's good anyway, as has already been mentioned, the mafia now has a dead man walking and the cop can still do his thing for a few days, AND the doctor can protect other players and interfere (the mafia don't want to kill the cop as that puts them at a serious numbers disadvantage). So it still gives the town a major advantage.