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Author Topic: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?  (Read 3095 times)

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Markov Chain

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Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« on: May 09, 2012, 09:03:03 pm »
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If Ambassador and Chapel are both available, and you start 4/3, which should you prefer?  My guess is that Ambassador is likely to be better unless there are several other players Ambassadoring.  Chapel can clean four cards, and Ambassador only two or three (you lose one or two, but you give them to your opponents).  However, Ambassador is more useful later, as you can feed your opponents coppers in addition to trashing however many coppers you want to trash.

With multiple players using Ambassador, the value of Ambassador will be decreased because Estates will run out; you don't get as much of a benefit for Ambassadoring one Estate when only the player on your left gets it. 

Councilroom says that 4/Ambassador openings are better than 4/Chapel if the 4 is non-terminal (making it more likely that you will play the Ambassador later).  The best and third-best openings with a 4-pointer are Tournament/Ambassador and Caravan/Ambassador, with Tournament/Chapel second.  Similarly, Ambassador also does much better than Chapel with any kind of village.  Chapel's best openings at beating Ambassador are Monument/Chapel and Young Witch/Chapel.  However, this doesn't really answer the choice question; if Ambassador, Chapel, and Young WItch are all in play, YW/Ambassador may be better because the curses will get sent back.

I encountered the issue in a game with those three, and the additional fact that Chapel was the bane card.  I was fifth to play, bought Caravan first, and once I saw that my opponents had all gone Chapel, I took Ambassador.  With the Chapels around, nobody wanted Young Witch until late, and I was able to keep a very thin deck with Ambassador the sole terminal and keep feeding copper to the other players.  I wound up tying one of the Chapel players for first.

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Kirian

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Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 10:25:30 pm »
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In a 5-player game?  I'd say open Amb/Chapel and hope for the best.  Though if no one else opens Amb, then double-Amb is a better bet.
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Markov Chain

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Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 10:55:44 pm »
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In a 5-player game?  I'd say open Amb/Chapel and hope for the best.  Though if no one else opens Amb, then double-Amb is a better bet.

Double-Amb doesn't do well when there aren't other players Ambassadoring things to you; your Ambassadors will run out of things to send.  And with five players, I wouldn't open double-Amb anyway even against other Ambassadors because the estates will run out after a few plays of Ambassador.

Also, in this particular set, Caravan was available, and Caravan/Ambassador is better than Ambassador/Ambassador.  (This isn't just the Councilroom rating; it's a clearly good combo, as Caravan gives Ambassador one more card to draw from, and is part of a strong deck.)
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qmech

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Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 04:58:56 am »
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If large numbers of players have bought Ambassador then I'd be inclined to skip it altogether.  The game's likely to be over very quickly, and buying Ambassadors will only lead to you spinning your wheels.  Just buy Silvers and rush the Duchies.

If everyone else has gone Chapel, then Ambassador becomes more attractive.
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Davio

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Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 06:09:18 am »
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Ambassador in multiplayer games is fun, suddenly all the Estates are gone!
Coppers could run out too!

But I'd go Caravan/Ambassador.
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Kirian

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Re: Start with Ambassador or Chapel?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 09:27:31 am »
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In a 5-player game?  I'd say open Amb/Chapel and hope for the best.  Though if no one else opens Amb, then double-Amb is a better bet.

Double-Amb doesn't do well when there aren't other players Ambassadoring things to you; your Ambassadors will run out of things to send.  And with five players, I wouldn't open double-Amb anyway even against other Ambassadors because the estates will run out after a few plays of Ambassador.

Also, in this particular set, Caravan was available, and Caravan/Ambassador is better than Ambassador/Ambassador.  (This isn't just the Councilroom rating; it's a clearly good combo, as Caravan gives Ambassador one more card to draw from, and is part of a strong deck.)

Oh, sorry, I didn't notice Caravan in your initial post.  Yes, Caravan/Ambassador was the way to go.  Being in 5th position and still tying for first is a good indicator of that.
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