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Author Topic: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?  (Read 3733 times)

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Markov Chain

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Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« on: April 30, 2012, 10:31:58 pm »
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I played a three-player Cornucopia/Hinterlands with the following set:

Hamlet
Duchess
Menagerie
Farming Village
Remake
Spice Merchant
Stables
Cache
Border Village
Fairgrounds

This is a great set for Fairgrounds; a deck with all ten kingdom cards is viable.  But if you manage to get a province (better than a Fairgrounds if you have 8 with only one buy, since it increases the chance Menagerie will work), you can afford to miss one of the 16 non-curse cards; which one (if any) would you go without?

Every single card here looks like a good part of a Fairgrounds strategy; for example, Cache provides fuel for Spice Merchant and Stables once your coppers run short, and since it is different from gold, it helps Menagerie create big turns (and Hamlet can help Menagerie eliminate duplicates and provide +Buy for those big turns).

I wound up with all ten kingdom cards, and my 16th different buy was an estate; this could have allowed me to use Remake to get rid of a unique card in order to upgrade something to a duchy.  (I wound up never doing this, as every time I had a chance for a late Remake, I would either have to lose two uniques or replace a silver that I was going to spend.)

My main rival Remade both his Caches into Fairgrounds and didn't realize at the end that he had only 14 cards (I don't remember what else he was missing).  On his game-ending turn, he could have bought a curse (for +7 net) with a spare buy, and if he had done that, I would still have beaten him by the 1 VP that the curse was worth. 
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popsofctown

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 11:39:53 am »
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It's one of those things you might not intuitively know before you run it through a simulator, but Spice Merchant is pretty weak.  Any fodder you would give to it should be given to Stables instead.  Spicey is the card I'd skip. 

It's definitely not good late, and early it's a terminal copper, compared to Moneylender, a terminal silver.  Early on you really want terminal silver or actual silver to hit 5$.
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randomdragoon

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 11:56:17 am »
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I agree that Spice Merchant is probably the card to skip. Remake is better at early trashing (although as you found out, kind of poor at late game trashing) and you want copper fodder for your Stables anyway.
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Markov Chain

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 07:11:00 pm »
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It's one of those things you might not intuitively know before you run it through a simulator, but Spice Merchant is pretty weak.  Any fodder you would give to it should be given to Stables instead.  Spicey is the card I'd skip. 

Spice Merchant served me well for the +1 Buy a few times, and the option to take two cards and an action was valuable to keep my engine running.  But it's a good target to Remake into a Duchy later, after the Fairgrounds run out and the deck is low on copper. 

My own guess about the card to skip was Farming Village.  With a deck full of actions and treasure, Farming Village didn't skip many greens until late in the game, and with greens around, Hamlet is also very good, so Farming Village was overpriced in this set.  I bought mine on a mid-game $10 with +1 buy, choosing Fairgrounds/FV over Province/Hamlet (I already had a province).  But given my deck, Fairgrounds/Menagerie might have been better even though it was my third Menagerie.   
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popsofctown

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 07:39:33 pm »
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The abundance of villages with no terminals to hit raises the question of whether Fairgrounds is an optimal way to play the set in the first place.
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Voltgloss

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 10:28:28 am »
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The abundance of villages with no terminals to hit raises the question of whether Fairgrounds is an optimal way to play the set in the first place.

Menagerie thrives in a Fairgrounds-aimed deck.  And Border Village facilitates picking up all those different pieces quickly.  And there IS a terminal to hit, though admittedly not a very powerful one:  Duchess. 
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Morgrim7

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 06:36:52 pm »
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The abundance of villages with no terminals to hit raises the question of whether Fairgrounds is an optimal way to play the set in the first place.

Menagerie thrives in a Fairgrounds-aimed deck.  And Border Village facilitates picking up all those different pieces quickly.  And there IS a terminal to hit, though admittedly not a very powerful one:  Duchess.
And Remake.
I would probably have skipped Spice Merchant. What use is it in this game? + Buy isn't really that helpful, there already is a Good trasher, and all the other cards are pretty decent, or easy to get (Duchess).
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popsofctown

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 08:10:13 pm »
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When Menagerie has Hamlets to work with, it needs no other help to be good.  In fact, putting a Hamlet in your deck fuels Menagerie better than any card you could add, even if that card has a unique name.

Duchess is not a "terminal to aim for", both a Province strategy and a Fairgrounds strategy want Hamlet for 2$ to fuel Menagerie, the only way to get a Duchess is to buy a Duchy, and then both decks will have enough actions to play their decks one or two duchesses.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 08:49:16 pm »
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the only way to get a Duchess is to buy a Duchy

??

You just mean that it's far more efficient to get the Duchess with a Duchy, right?  Because you can choose to buy a Duchess on its own, if you want to.
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popsofctown

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 09:10:15 pm »
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Correct interpretation, you can purchase a Duchess but can't justify it with Menagerie and Hamlet on the board together.
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Markov Chain

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Re: Sixteen cards, and what don't you get?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 12:29:36 am »
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The abundance of villages with no terminals to hit raises the question of whether Fairgrounds is an optimal way to play the set in the first place.

Menagerie thrives in a Fairgrounds-aimed deck.  And Border Village facilitates picking up all those different pieces quickly.  And there IS a terminal to hit, though admittedly not a very powerful one:  Duchess.

Spice Merchant was also often used as a terminal, because the +Buy was useful on big turns.  While the discussion here shows that it could be avoided, avoiding it requires you to either have a Province or a Curse. 

Hamlet's value in this deck is not as a village; it was used to discard duplicates in order to power Menagerie, and for +buy. 

And Duchess got into the decks naturally; Fairgrounds players need one Duchy and could add a Duchess at the same time.  Once the Fairgrounds ran out, 6 coins could be Border Village/Duchy/optional Duchess.
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