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[Boldot]

So I've been toying around with my my fan expansion for a while, and I thought of an interesting (at least, I find it interesting) concept I'd not seen before. 

Shaman - Action - $2
+1 action
While this card is in play during cleanup for this turn, you may trash 1 card instead of discarding it from play


The wording keeps it from being TR/KC'd, it doesn't allow you to trash cards from your hand (no estate trashing), but the trashing happens after your turn so you can still get full value out of those coppers.  Is this too weak without the ability to trash cards from your hand as well?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to play test this version, I tested a version that lasted more than one turn, allowed trashing from your hand, and gave you a benefit the next turn. Surprise, it turned out way too strong.  I'm interested in something that might be worth spending 3 (maybe 4) on, but not too valuable for it's price.

Thoughts, or is this not salvageable?

[jonts26]

I think the concept is neat, but as it is, I'm not sure I'd every buy this card. You are mostly only trashing coppers with it, except in a few edge cases, since estates/curses cant be played. Consider moneylender, which lets you trash a copper and gives you a benefit of +$3 to spend this turn (net +$2). You say this card lets you still get value from playing the copper, but you waste a card slot doing so. And trashing 1 copper at a time is really slow. Rarely worth it.

I say, why not let it trash anything you want? That makes it a much more reasonable $2 card, but still somewhat situational. Another option is give it a conditional clause like "if you trash this card, gain a gold." Might need a price bump to $4 probably, but could be fun. Spend the early game thinning your deck with a few of these then trade them in for Golds.

[ftl]

Nitpicky comment - at the very least, it needs to be action-duration

The idea seems sound. Some thing that you play once, and then keeps trashing one card every turn until it doesn't.

Useful for trashing coppers - you have one turn early where this uses up a slot in your hand, and then probably for 3-5 turns you'll have a copper to trash with it, and you still get the value of the copper, until you get unlucky and don't draw a copper to play with it. Can't trash estates. It's faster at trashing coppers than Moneylender, but gives you no benefit.

I have no idea whether it's balanced - that has to be playtested. It's obviously not good for any BM+X strategy, but I'd definitely buy it if it was the only trasher around and I wanted to set up some sort of engine. And there was no cursing, since it can't trash curses. 

Possible ways to make it more powerful while staying thematic:
1) On the turn when you discard it from play, optionally let it trash a card from your hand. 
2) Have it accumulate tokens for each card you trash, and then when it gets discarded, give you some benefit based on those tokens. (Gain a card worth up to X? After you've used it to trash six coppers, you can have it gain you a gold?)
3) Give it a reaction-like power - maybe let you discard it from play to trash a card that you're about to gain? Then you could have it keep trashing coppers until someone gives you a curse, which you could then block. This would be a really powerful, though.
4) Let you trash it from play instead of just discarding from play, for one of the above benefits.
5) Maybe have it give you some benefit on the turn you discard it from play? It would be trivial to make this a $4 card, I think, by basically making it a terminal silver; something like "you may choose to get $+2. If you do, you must discard this from play at the end of this turn". (You'd have to make the wording work.) Or give a more interesting benefit than that.

Unfortunately, a card that stays in play permanently is different enough from anything we've had so far, that I don't really trust my intuition about how it would play out.

Try playtesting it as compared to Moneylender. Set up an engine board and have one person open with one of these and the other person open with Moneylender and see how it plays out when you pick otherwise similar strategies.

[AJD]

Nitpicky comment - at the very least, it needs to be action-duration

This seems more like a "suggested revision" than a "nitpicky comment".

[Boldot]

Well, it's intentionally NOT a duration, as it's effect is done the turn you play it (albeit at the end of the turn).  It gets cleaned up with everything else.  If it were to stay out (and my expansion has mechanics to deal with that...) I'd have a limit to either the number of turns or number of times able to trash.  Also, it'd cost more than just $2.  The only reason it has the "while this card is in play" wording is so that it can't be TR/KC'd.


Updated idea. Added a self trash ability (one shot remodel), as well as reworded the discard mechanic.  It should be able to trash cards from your hand during cleanup as well.

Shaman - Action - $2
+1 action
When you play this card, you may trash it and another card from your hand.  If you do, gain a card costing exactly equal to the total cost of both cards.
If you do not, while this card is in play during cleanup for this turn, you may trash 1 card instead of discarding it.

Gives it a little bit more power in trashing estates/curses, and lets it clean up after itself when you're done trashing.  Not quite gaining a gold when it's trashed, but a one shot remodels not terrible.

[Asklepios]

Shaman - Action - $2
+1 action
While this card is in play during cleanup for this turn, you may trash 1 card instead of discarding it from play

I think its an extremely neat concept, but I agree that even at $2 its not something to be bought in most games, as its an extremely slow trasher that takes up a card slot.

My fix would be this:

Shaman - Action - $2
+1 card, +1 action
While this card is in play during cleanup for this turn, you may trash 1 card instead of discarding it from play


Essentially by making it a cantrip you make it an "almost no harm" card with a weak effect, akin to Pearl Diver in power. Very slow trashing ain't great, but it fits in the "may as well take it" slot for when you have $2 spare, and feeds cards reliant on action chains (conspirator, peddler, grand market), as well as synergising reasonably well with those chains as it makes them more likely to connect.

[Quadell]

Neat concept! I like one of Jonts26's original suggestions, that it should be able to trash any number of cards in play. You might only use it once, trashing it the first time you play it along with a bunch of copper. Or you could keep it around to get rid of cards that have outlived their usefulness, such as Sea Hags or Barons. It would in some ways be better than a Chapel, in that it can get rid of itself (while having the obvious downside that it can't trash Estates or Curses). I like the idea of it being a cantrip, but I worry that might make it too powerful for a very low cost. Though I haven't playtested it, I would imagine this would stand a decent chance of being balanced:

Shaman - Action - $3
+1 action
While this is in play, during your cleanup phase you may trash any number of cards in play instead of discarding them.

This would be especially good in places where you want to keep Estates around (e.g. Baron), or where you have other ways of dealing with Estates (e.g. JOAT).

[AJD]

I think rather than "while this is in play", this effect might be better phrased (in imitation of Herbalist) as "when you discard this from play, you may trash one card that you have in play".

[BubbleBoy]

Shaman - Action - $2
+1 card, +1 action
While this card is in play during cleanup for this turn, you may trash 1 card instead of discarding it from play

I like this idea, but I think it's underpriced. Trashing a Copper after using it is a huge step up from trashing it from hand, especially as a "may" ability. If there were a card that said, "+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, trash a Copper from your hand," I would easily pay $4 for it.

[Boldot]

Trashing any number of cards after you've played them seems way to strong to me, and treads on the grounds of mint. 
Couple idea's here, still want some feedback on the pseudo-remodel one too.


Shaman - Action - $2
+1 action
When you discard this card from play, you can either trash 1 card instead of discarding it, or trash this card and 2 other cards instead of discarding them.

This version keeps with the discard->trash mechanic, but might be too restrictive in it's cleanup with requiring 2 other cards be trashed when you trash it.

Liking the clean up after itself mechanic, so I'll probably keep that somehow.  I agree with jonts, in that it probably needs to be able to trash cards from your hand as well (estates/curses).  Any way to make it more useful as a $2 without making it a no-brainer pickup.

[Axxle]

Thoughts, or is this not salvageable?

Of course it's salvageable: you'd get +$2 and a buy!

... I'm sorry for that...