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Author Topic: Where's the official app?  (Read 66085 times)

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blueblimp

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #150 on: May 08, 2012, 09:24:37 pm »
0

I don't see the added benefits of making the specific different versions being enough to justify writing so many different programs. Now, maybe it's not that hard to do, and certainly making it for 5 platforms say, should be much less work than 5 times making it for one, but I don't see much added benefit at all.

Well, the thing is here is that if the mobile clients are of high-quality, it might not save that much effort. It wouldn't surprise me if mobile devices see a completely different site than desktop browsers. After all, the screen size is different, the input method is different, etc. So at minimum, the mobile and PC clients are going to be almost entirely different.

It may save effort by not requiring writing both iOS and Android versions, I guess. If there's no trade-off in quality, then that might be worth it. IMX writing simple HTML games to play on my iPhone/iPad, it's possible to achieve perfectly acceptable quality, so that's why I'm optimistic.
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Kirian

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #151 on: May 08, 2012, 09:42:41 pm »
+1

Care to give an explanation of the popularity of the app "Dominion by Donald X. Vaccarino", despite the fact that isotropic has multiplayer, all the cards and was available years earlier?
Bonus points if you can avoid mentioning the interface issues isotropic experiences AS A NON-NATIVE APP.

Bah, I know, I'm replying to barsooma for some reason... but his question was technically directed at me.  In any case, though, this has basically been answered above:  it's not popular, at least, not compared to isotropic, and that is the only comparison that should matter to the developer.

Consider:  The iOS version has ~2500 ratings, which likely means ~5000 downloads.  About 600 games per day played since release.
Isotropic has ~8500 people active just in the last ten days, with who knows how many total inactive players; I'm willing to bet on ~20k.  20k games played per day.

Let's pretend you're a developer.  Which market do you go after?

That said, as WW says, presumably they have done their own market research.  We've been told they watch these forums.  They know who their core market is.

----

2. "I don't really care about your iOS stuff. I don't have an iOS device, and I want to be able to use the product. having more people be able to use the thing is more important than optimizing the little tiny niceties in ONE VERSION that only a fraction, even if it's a substantial one, of the people will use."

That's where I stand, at least.
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Scott Pilgrim

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #152 on: May 08, 2012, 09:54:54 pm »
0

I don't understand why you all have alternate accounts on Isotropic.  It doesn't bother me, I'm just curious as to their purpose.  Clean CouncilRoom profile?  Experimenting with crazy strategies and/or 3p-4p?

Schizophrenia
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O

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #153 on: May 08, 2012, 10:58:51 pm »
0

blah blah blah

TL;DR:
WanderingWinder feels ENTITLED to an app for his non-iOS device, even though Apple completely dominates the market of for-pay apps, and any company with the slightest sense of market realities will cater to them.

Just to confirm, Gaming companies shouldn't both computer games to work on Macs then, right? Because among gamers.. certainly the bias is even more towards PCs than your case is towards Apple.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #154 on: May 08, 2012, 11:49:45 pm »
+2

I am deeply sorry for anyone who had to read that BGG thread because f.ds was down yesterday.

What makes this comment so hilarious is that this thread has gotten at least as bad.
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Galzria

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #155 on: May 08, 2012, 11:56:50 pm »
0

I am deeply sorry for anyone who had to read that BGG thread because f.ds was down yesterday.

What makes this comment so hilarious is that this thread has gotten at least as bad.

To be fair, it's mostly been fueled by the local troll who still seems capable of getting bites. I think for almost all the regulars here this is a non-issue.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

theory

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #156 on: May 08, 2012, 11:57:52 pm »
0

I am deeply sorry for anyone who had to read that BGG thread because f.ds was down yesterday.

What makes this comment so hilarious is that this thread has gotten at least as bad.
Isotropic V2 + Android v iOS = a toxic combination?
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dondon151

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #157 on: May 08, 2012, 11:59:38 pm »
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To be fair, it's mostly been fueled by the local troll who still seems capable of getting bites. I think for almost all the regulars here this is a non-issue.

So every dissenting opinion belongs to a troll? Just for the record, this thread was "bad" enough as is before barsooma started posting in it.
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Galzria

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #158 on: May 09, 2012, 12:06:39 am »
0

To be fair, it's mostly been fueled by the local troll who still seems capable of getting bites. I think for almost all the regulars here this is a non-issue.

So every dissenting opinion belongs to a troll? Just for the record, this thread was "bad" enough as is before barsooma started posting in it.

No, nor was my comment directed at anyone other than Barsooma, as you're obviously well aware. And yes, he rarely does anything but troll.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WanderingWinder

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #159 on: May 09, 2012, 12:27:13 am »
0

To be fair, it's mostly been fueled by the local troll who still seems capable of getting bites. I think for almost all the regulars here this is a non-issue.

So every dissenting opinion belongs to a troll? Just for the record, this thread was "bad" enough as is before barsooma started posting in it.

No, nor was my comment directed at anyone other than Barsooma, as you're obviously well aware. And yes, he rarely does anything but troll.
Eh, I just double-checked by going back and re-reading all of his posts. A lot of them might be trolling, but a lot of them really really aren't.

icesphere

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #160 on: May 10, 2012, 08:45:44 am »
+3

So I was looking on the funsockets website at the Careers section and noticed an entry for a Java developer, so I'm guessing the back-end is written in Java.  I've had my website up for a while now (http://kingdom.servegame.org), and the server side is written in Java, the front-end is done with html, and there is a mobile version of the site. Similar to isotropic it is just running on a computer at my house. However I've noticed that isotropic is much more responsive, and can handle a lot more users than my website, so hopefully the people at funsockets have done a better job at developing a solution that can scale.  Anyway just thought people might be interested since the official version will probably be using similar technologies.
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blueblimp

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #161 on: May 10, 2012, 10:57:49 am »
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The isotropic backend is written in Python. Python (though I love it very much) is about as slow as it gets. Attribute isotropic's scalability to implementer skill and not choice of programming language. :)
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Kirian

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #162 on: May 10, 2012, 11:16:39 am »
0

The isotropic backend is written in Python. Python (though I love it very much) is about as slow as it gets. Attribute isotropic's scalability to implementer skill and not choice of programming language. :)

Someone mentioned being particularly amazed that the entire isotropic server--at least, the part dougz made open source--is something like 400 lines of code total.
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rrenaud

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2012, 11:28:50 am »
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But the part he open sourced was just a framework and included no Dominion logic.
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icesphere

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #164 on: May 10, 2012, 11:55:09 am »
+1

Yep dougz is a smart guy, I doubt I would be able to get a job at google  :P

I'm guessing if someone smarter than me looked at my code they could make it more scalable pretty easily. I'm sure I could improve it as well, but it's hard to be motivated to change things when you know that an official version is coming out soon.

I'm also surprised that funsockets is taking so long, I just implemented the website in my free time, and it includes most of the cards, plus several fan cards, plus an AI, that while not great, almost 40% of games that included an AI player have been won by an AI player. They must be spending a lot of time on things like payment, leader boards, etc.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 12:25:34 pm by icesphere »
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theory

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #165 on: May 10, 2012, 12:04:46 pm »
+1

The isotropic backend is written in Python. Python (though I love it very much) is about as slow as it gets. Attribute isotropic's scalability to implementer skill and not choice of programming language. :)

Someone mentioned being particularly amazed that the entire isotropic server--at least, the part dougz made open source--is something like 400 lines of code total.
I think he was referring to this:

Code: [Select]
the number of lines of code for each set:

 108 basic.py
 255 promo.py
 386 alchemy.py
 440 guilds.py
 527 cornucopia.py
 579 base_set.py
 665 intrigue.py
 728 seaside.py
 765 prosperity.py
 828 hinterlands.py
1561 darkages.py

6842 total

Which is indeed pretty cool.
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chogg

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #166 on: May 10, 2012, 12:17:28 pm »
+2

Where can I download darkages.py?
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theory

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #167 on: May 10, 2012, 12:19:26 pm »
+12

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paddyodoors

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Forge!!!

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #169 on: May 10, 2012, 12:34:51 pm »
0

What can such a ridiculous jump in code needed be caused by? Complex interactions with other cards?
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Kirian

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #170 on: May 10, 2012, 12:37:45 pm »
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What can such a ridiculous jump in code needed be caused by? Complex interactions with other cards?

It's been implied that Dark Ages is a 500-card set but with no base cards.  So, presumably 40+ new kingdom cards.
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Kirian

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #171 on: May 10, 2012, 12:38:36 pm »
+1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/darkages.py

It says something about my time on the internet that I can recognize the start of that URL (after the ?) and know not to click on it.
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Ghritke

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #172 on: May 10, 2012, 12:54:19 pm »
0

So I was looking on the funsockets website at the Careers section and noticed an entry for a Java developer, so I'm guessing the back-end is written in Java.  I've had my website up for a while now (http://kingdom.servegame.org), and the server side is written in Java, the front-end is done with html, and there is a mobile version of the site. Similar to isotropic it is just running on a computer at my house. However I've noticed that isotropic is much more responsive, and can handle a lot more users than my website, so hopefully the people at funsockets have done a better job at developing a solution that can scale.  Anyway just thought people might be interested since the official version will probably be using similar technologies.
Wow! Great job with this. It will take a while for me to get used to, but so far its been a lot of fun.
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DStu

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #173 on: May 10, 2012, 01:03:14 pm »
0

The isotropic backend is written in Python. Python (though I love it very much) is about as slow as it gets. Attribute isotropic's scalability to implementer skill and not choice of programming language. :)

Someone mentioned being particularly amazed that the entire isotropic server--at least, the part dougz made open source--is something like 400 lines of code total.
I think he was referring to this:

Code: [Select]
the number of lines of code for each set:

 108 basic.py
 255 promo.py
 386 alchemy.py
 440 guilds.py
 527 cornucopia.py
 579 base_set.py
 665 intrigue.py
 728 seaside.py
 765 prosperity.py
 828 hinterlands.py
1561 darkages.py

6842 total

Which is indeed pretty cool.
I think you can programm Dominioncards on a really small space, because they themself are just little programms. Dominiate's card definition has 2794 loc including comments, there are some cards missing still (about 10 or so), but that's more because of problems with the AI. Some things are also somewhere else, e.g. Outposts logic is mostly done by the game state, but I'm not really surprised that you can do the cards on 30 lines of code on average.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 01:07:25 pm by DStu »
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DStu

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Re: Where's the official app?
« Reply #174 on: May 10, 2012, 01:04:33 pm »
0

It says something about my time on the internet that I can recognize the start of that URL (after the ?) and know not to click on it.

still:
Quote
Dieses Video ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar.
Das tut uns leid.

:e The live version also works in Germany, and maybe Kirian doesn't know the url yet...
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