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Author Topic: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos  (Read 9512 times)

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rrenaud

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2012, 06:35:16 pm »
+2

I was thinking that finding games between high level players where the players took different strategies and the outcome was close would be a good training set source of positive examples, and games between high level players where they followed essentially the same strategy would be a good negative set.
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Fabian

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2012, 07:19:31 pm »
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"Outcome was close" seems like an incredibly time consuming (and skill demanding) thing to determine.
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rrenaud

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2012, 09:07:28 pm »
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It's hard only if you want to be right all the time ;).

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Just seeing a small VP margin at the end of the game (or even small VP margin for a couple turns before the game ended, with swapping leads) is probably going to work well.  Sure, it's going to miss the mega-turn games where the score looks like a blowout, but whether the mega turn hit in time was a coin flip.  And it might say some game was close where the loser was just hanging on through shear miracle and never really had a chance. 

Of course, if the heuristic was good, there might not be a need for an algorithmic way to generate good new sets, cause surely there have been at least 10s of thousands of good, close games between good players already on iso.  And not even WW could play in them all ;).
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Obi Wan Bonogi

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2012, 10:21:19 am »
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I was thinking that finding games between high level players where the players took different strategies and the outcome was close would be a good training set source of positive examples, and games between high level players where they followed essentially the same strategy would be a good negative set.

I think this is a great place to look.
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Robz888

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2012, 02:33:24 pm »
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So... Minion:

+: Loan, Peddler, Market, Highway, Oasis, Tournament, Tactician
?: Mountebank, Witch, Sea Hag, Young Witch, Torturer
-: Colony and Platinum, Bank, Hoard, Venture, Laboratory, Governor, Stables

Like that? I'm not sure I correctly understood the "?" category. I just put all the Curse attacks, because they don't specifically combo with Minion, but having Minion doesn't really make them less desirable.
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rrenaud

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2012, 02:36:43 pm »
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I'd really like to have the target on the left a a colon, so it's understandable by a machine that only sees one line at a time.

Minion: +Loan, Peddler, Market, Highway, Oasis, Tournament, Tactician

It now occurs to me that it even makes sense to allow expressions on the left, like

[Cards >= 3]: +[Actions >= 2], Bank

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Jorbles

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Re: Help a stats loving brother out, list combos, counters, nombos
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2012, 02:14:18 pm »
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Okay then with the above in mind:
Venture:
-: Bank, Remodel, Governor

Wait, what? Why?

I don't at all see the reasoning for Bank...as for Remodel and Governor, is it just because of turning Gold into Province?
Bank was originally because you want to play the Bank last, but thinking about it Ventures almost always would play a Bank last anyways, so I'll edit that out. Remodel and Governor because you would prefer Golds to Ventures for the remodel to Province.
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