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Author Topic: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?  (Read 18858 times)

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WanderingWinder

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Re: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2012, 06:03:51 pm »
+1

Played another several with Marin yesterday. Didn't video, so I'm going off the logs. Here we go:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-125042-da087f46.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-125603-2bb4090e.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-130449-743dbe8d.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-130728-160810bf.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-131339-f639ab00.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-131946-a424239a.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120519-133315-d9cb29f5.html

Game 1: I go for the strong and respectable courtyard/BM. He goes for an engine with ambassador. Because KC is present, and there are some nice cards (bridge, market, grand market, outpost... even bishop) in the black market, he can crush me terribly. Without the BM help, or without the KC, or maybe even without lab, it'd be good, but alas. Definitely outplayed badly here.

Game 2: He goes HT/Gardens, which I don't think is all that great. I go monument/BM, snagging a couple gardens, and an HT or two down the line. Note how I play differently here than I would in a mirror, going for more cash build-up. Also the expand, which is really important to help me end the game quickly enough. He's very creative with HoP and some vineyards out the back door, but I win fairly easily.

Game 3: The big time luck begins. Mountebank, KC, City, Lab, monument. Well, I'd play for a big action chain here, but pumping so much stuff with the mountebank... and getting hit with it. I really really dislike his outpost here for the same reason (by the way, if you notice, outpost comes up a LOT in these games, and he loves it). So, but the big thing is, I go for this pretty big lead, and then on my last turn, grab a city, looking to end the game. Well, maybe I should have taken a duchy? But he's somehow able to pull enough stuff together to get the whole UCS with multiple KC-KCs and swindling just enough stuff.... to win by 3 points after buying everything. Sad day.

Game 4: More luck. At the beginning of the next game, he marvels as to how I haven't complained to him about it, actually. Anyway, a Fool's Gold kind of mirror. I win the split, build up a nicer deck, with council room sooner, have a lead the whole game, and... get JUST stuck at the end, and he takes it by a point. Well, I don't actually think this is that terrible, luck-wise, but it felt pretty bad at the time. Last game was worse.

Game 5: And more. I get a turn 1 minion, then get stuck big time on 4s. He slows down to win the minion split 6-4 (which was pretty lucky for me, actually). But I really don't like his turn 7 outpost. This should have been a minion. If you get a really big split on the minions, outpost can be nice. But you want to win that split first. As it is, one of minion's biggest problems is that it can really stall out. The outpost just makes this worse. This actually probably really let me stay in the game. Then I pick up a merchant ship after the minions run out, and it falls pretty well after that, the luck turns, and I steal a five point win. Though if he gets even $2 on his last turn, he buys the last estate to win. I can't do the same, because he wins tie-break. So pretty lucky at the end.

Game 6: An IGG match-up with masquerade, Border Village, and Goons. I'm not too sure about how much he's pounding Border Village ->IGG early on, and I think I had a pretty good winning chance the whole game, but he is able to make off with two provinces, which puts me in a bad hole. My terminals also have a bad habit of misbehaving here.

Game 7: This one, I have to give to him, as genius play. I'm actually still not sure whether a slightly more optimized version of my plan should beat him on average, but probably not. And even if it's close, which it probably should be, it's amazing what he does. So I play courtyard/BM. Which is strong, by the way. I don't really see any engine potential here, despite KC. I mean, really, what are you KC'ing? But he does it. Big KC chains with courtyard, native village, a spice merchant, a trade route, and nomad camps. Oh, and an outpost again. Yeah, nomad camp is the big idea here. Now, I'd sort of thought about this - it's the only engine possible - but figured it would be really inconsistent. But here's the beauty. You use courtyard and native village to get you a haven effect, greatly mitigating the chance he comes up empty. Still, turn 17 I thought I had him dead cold. Then not-quite-a-colony, and... BOOM! In one turn, plus its outposted counterpart, he scores... 75 points! Simply an incredible game.

Edit: added missing log
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 02:15:58 pm by WanderingWinder »
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RisingJaguar

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Re: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2012, 02:08:33 pm »
0

You are missing the IGG game 6 log btw.

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WanderingWinder

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Re: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2012, 02:16:10 pm »
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You are missing the IGG game 6 log btw.


Thanks. Fixed.

O

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Re: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2012, 09:28:23 pm »
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Moral of game 7: If you let your opponent get Nine KCs, draw, actions with +buy.. before you get half the VP total, you're going to have a bad time. >.>

Also, wow. That is the only time I will ever see Three super-action-stars and two more mega-action-stars.
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dondon151

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Re: WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2012, 10:51:19 pm »
+1

Game 7: This one, I have to give to him, as genius play. I'm actually still not sure whether a slightly more optimized version of my plan should beat him on average, but probably not. And even if it's close, which it probably should be, it's amazing what he does. So I play courtyard/BM. Which is strong, by the way. I don't really see any engine potential here, despite KC. I mean, really, what are you KC'ing? But he does it. Big KC chains with courtyard, native village, a spice merchant, a trade route, and nomad camps. Oh, and an outpost again. Yeah, nomad camp is the big idea here. Now, I'd sort of thought about this - it's the only engine possible - but figured it would be really inconsistent. But here's the beauty. You use courtyard and native village to get you a haven effect, greatly mitigating the chance he comes up empty. Still, turn 17 I thought I had him dead cold. Then not-quite-a-colony, and... BOOM! In one turn, plus its outposted counterpart, he scores... 75 points! Simply an incredible game.

From my experience, KC is not ignorable if there's a drawing card in conjunction with +buys, nor if there are any cards that are just a lot better when tripled. I find that there's very few boards where KC can be passed up without a significant risk of giving up the game.
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