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Snorka

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Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« on: September 29, 2024, 05:56:11 pm »
+1

Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
Life sure is stressful for an up-and-coming ruler. First you accidentally built a lighthouse twice as big as it should have been, then some idiot toppled your ancient monument, then, to top it all off, dogs ran off with all your tennis balls! It's time to get away from it all. What better place to relax than Wuhu Island? Here athletes of all kinds gather to play some casual sports and obsess over their rankings. It's been a while since you've played sports. If you remember correctly, archery is all about ignoring the target and impaling fruits hidden across the landscape. In table tennis, you try and hit your opponent in the face with the ball. Canoeing is too frustrating and boring to bother with. Well, what are you waiting for? Hop in your plane, and after a quick relaxing detour through an active volcano, your island getaway awaits!

Wii Sports Resort is a fan expansion to Dominion. So far, the cards are untested and are all thus subject to change or removal. It features the new Sport mechanic, as well as the return of the Island Mat, Victory Point tokens, and Coffers.

First up are the Sports and their Athlete card type. Sports are a deck of non-cards that you shuffle and include next to the Supply in games with an Athlete in them, much like Boons/Hexes and their associated Fate/Doom types. When a card says to play a Sport, set it aside in front of the current player. It stays in play until each player has had at least one turn with that Sport in play. While in play, when any player does an effect that the Sport says grants +1 Point, they place a Coin token next to that Sport in their own personal pile. After each player has had a turn with a given Sport in play, in between turns, score it by counting how many tokens are in each player's pile. The player with the most tokens wins the Sport and carries out the Sport's Trophy effect. Then, put the Sport in a shared Sport discard pile.
 - If there is a tie, no player gets the Trophy.
 - If you would access a card in the Sport deck, but the deck is empty, shuffle the Sport discard pile to form a new deck. If both the deck and discard are empty, don't play any Sport.
 - If two Sports would score in the same window, score them in the order in which they were played.
 - You can never have less than 0 points on a Sport.

These are the Athletes that don't belong with other mechanics. There are others lower down.
Sports:



Ducklings are non-Supply cards covered lower down.

The Island Mat returns from Seaside. Just like back then, cards on your Island mat are not part of your deck, but are counted during scoring.



Victory Point tokens are back. You can keep them on your Island mat if you like.


The Menhirs operate similarly to each other, but don't have much synergy, so they're a split pile more like Knights than anything from Empires or Allies

Coffers are back, too. You can keep them on your Island mat too.

Here is the promised Duckling from earlier, and two cards that gain them.



Some of the cards don't fit with any of the expansion's mechanics and themes. Here they are.


Since Wuhu Island has so many iconic points of interest, Landmarks are back too! That's why the set has VP tokens but only two piles & a Sport that use them. Plus here's one card that interacts with Landmarks.




And thanks for reading! I put a lot of thought into these cards but haven't tested them yet, so feel free to criticise them as much as you like. Anything y'all catch is something I don't have to test out of the set. Let me know if you want a printable file; I'm planning on putting one out after these are tested but I can do it earlier on request.
Thanks to 461.Weaville for inspiring me to put this set out.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 01:27:45 am by Snorka »
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Will(ow|iam)

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2024, 09:24:42 pm »
+1

I really like the Sports!

Of the Menhirs, I think Forest and Lava monument are too centralizing. I'm not a big fan of the concept in general tbh.

I worry that Camel Rock and Red Iron Bridge do nothing too often, and that Mysterious Ruins overlaps too much with Fountain.

The Whale Shark could also lead to stalemates, if the province pile has embargo on it, Wall is in the kingdom, the duchy pile is empty, and the players' scores are close-enough. I suppose that could've happened with just Embargo and Wall, but it's even more likely with Whale Shark.
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Snorka

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2024, 01:29:39 am »
0

Thanks for taking a look! I hope the Sports turn out good after testing next weekend.
I see what you mean about Forest and Lava Monument. I think Lava Monument is more warping than Forest Monument. In my experience, cost reduction isn't too centralizing except in large quantities.(i.e. Canal isn't too bad). But the Lava Monument is too easy for one player to miss being able to get it entirely and then be stuck with no access to a Junk Dealer++. I kinda want to move Forest Monument's +Buy onto one of the other Menhirs, so maybe Lava Monument will get the +Buy instead of +Coffers.
As for Camel Rock, it looks like 17 cards(including the ones that do it via Ghost) and 8 landscapes(where they could stay set aside until end of game). There are eight Exile cards and six Exile landscapes. Add in this set's four Island cards plus Island and Native village and you get 30 cards and 14 landscapes. Some quick math says that Camel Rock does something in about 54.6% of games where it shows up. Maybe that isn't enough? It's certainly less than Tomb, which is relevant in at least 92% of games.
Red Iron Bridge does something in almost every game. For starters, there are 76 Attacks. Durations, Reactions, Athletes, Omens, Shadows, Fates, Dooms, Gatherings, rotating split piles, and hybrid Victory/Action/Treasures just add on top of that.
Good point about Mysterious Ruins. I'll have to look into redesigns.
I think the Whale Shark stalemate is rare enough not to worry about it. Wall and Whale Shark only show up together in 0.007% of games, let alone any of that other stuff.
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infangthief

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2024, 10:25:05 am »
+1

Nice new mechanism! I have a few questions:
  • What is the timing of carrying out the Sport Trophy effects? It looks like it is in between turns. That might work out fine - I can't think of any specific problems with it but I believe Donald X tries to avoid anything happening between turns.
  • If multiple Sports end at the same time, does someone get to choose the order of resolution, or is it the order they were played in? Or does it not matter? Eg If Basketball and Table Tennis end at the same time, can the Basketball winner's gained Gold give them +1 Point for Table Tennis?
  • I feel like it might be tricky to keep track of which Sport ends when, especially if there are several in play. Might be worth putting them in front of the player to the right of the current player. Still not foolproof eg if some other player skips a turn due to Lich.
  • What happens to a Sport after carrying out its Trophy effects? Does it stay there doing nothing, or get turned face down, or go back to the bottom of the Sport deck? Is it any different for the Sports set aside by Hot Air Balloon?
  • Can you ever have fewer than 0 points on a Sport (eg Golf or Cycling)?

I haven't thought much about the individual cards, but one thing that looks like it might be a problem is Maka Wuhu + Ruins.

I like the things that many of these cards care about - number of types, number of cards in play (though for Golf would it be better to be cards in play at start of Clean-up, rather than end of turn?), and some good uses of the Island mat.
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Snorka

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2024, 02:18:07 am »
0

    Thanks for helping catch these!
What is the timing of carrying out the Sport Trophy effects? It looks like it is in between turns. That might work out fine - I can't think of any specific problems with it but I believe Donald X tries to avoid anything happening between turns.
I intended to have them trigger between turns in order to prevent end of turn effect order shenanigans. An exception is probably fine here.
Quote
If multiple Sports end at the same time, does someone get to choose the order of resolution, or is it the order they were played in? Or does it not matter? Eg If Basketball and Table Tennis end at the same time, can the Basketball winner's gained Gold give them +1 Point for Table Tennis?
Hm. I definitely don't want anyone to choose the order of resolution. The initial intent was for them all to start resolving simultaneously, so gaining Gold from Basketball wouldn't give a point for Table Tennis. But that probably doesn't actually work. I'll change it to the order they were played in.
Quote
I feel like it might be tricky to keep track of which Sport ends when, especially if there are several in play. Might be worth putting them in front of the player to the right of the current player. Still not foolproof eg if some other player skips a turn due to Lich.
That's a good idea. I'll put that in.
Quote
What happens to a Sport after carrying out its Trophy effects? Does it stay there doing nothing, or get turned face down, or go back to the bottom of the Sport deck? Is it any different for the Sports set aside by Hot Air Balloon?
It goes back to the bottom of the Sport deck. Hot Air Balloon probably needs a change to work around that.
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Can you ever have fewer than 0 points on a Sport (eg Golf or Cycling)?
No. 0 is the minimum(I'll update Golf and Cycling to clarify that).
[/list]

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I haven't thought much about the individual cards, but one thing that looks like it might be a problem is Maka Wuhu + Ruins.
I'm not super worried about that. Ruins didn't kill Siren or Ways in development, and Donate exists anyway. Oh wait, but is the concern a game where you buy Ruins every turn and trash your entire deck? That might be a problem. Could try "reveal an Action from a hand of at least 3 cards" or something.

Quote
I like the things that many of these cards care about - number of types, number of cards in play (though for Golf would it be better to be cards in play at start of Clean-up, rather than end of turn?), and some good uses of the Island mat.
Thanks! That was absolutely an oversight on Golf; I will update that and everything else on Saturday after initial playtesting.
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461.weavile

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2024, 10:11:46 pm »
+1

Yo, this is a great idea, and you got it on paper pretty fast after I heard you had an idea.
I don't really have any comments on the power levels, but here are some minor wording thoughts if you're interested.

Completely unimportant, but if you want to eliminate the dividing line and the "while this is in play" on Extreme Canoeist, you may be able to put "Until then, when you win a Sport, get the Trophy a second time."
For Frisbee, Tournament uses the "each" wording. If you want to be consistent with that, "all other players" could easily be "each other player."
You excluded a space before the opening parenthesis on Table Tennis. UNACCEPTABLE! lol (and Swordfighter and probably every use of one. I'm wondering if that's an issue from Shard, perhaps.)
Bowling says "at the end of your Buy phase." Is it much different than at the start of your Clean-Up phase? (Also, I see infangthief already mentioned the timing issue on Golf.)
I assume your fine with the players tracking the order of the revealed cards with Air Sports? It doesn't say to choose the order or discard them, so that technically means they stay as they were.
On Dogfight Plane, shouldn't the other players reveal their own cards?
Hot-Air Balloon doesn't specify, but it seems to logically follow that it only works three times because it doesn't say to leave the Sport there or set the Sport aside again.
Don't crucify me, but "hot-air" should be hyphenated because "hot" isn't modifying "balloon."
Dogfight Plane and Wedge Island use "place," but Barnacle Arch, Hot-Air Balloon, and Island use "put."
Weathered Monument and Forest Monument probably want the +VP before the sentences, and Mountain Monument might want an "and" between the bonuses.
On Hotel, numberless vanilla bonuses are technically always plural, so it would be more consistent to say "if it gave you +Buys." (Also, you missed the final punctuation; for shame.)
As far as I know, any official Reactions that trigger on an opponent playing a card say "you may first." I can envision a scenario in which there is a dispute over whether you get to play Target before or after the player playing the Attack.
The choice of past tense on Whale Watchers is interesting. I have no idea how useful it will be to check what the cost was when you revealed instead of what the cost is now. (Ditto Bowling Alley.)
Completely unnecessary, but you could phrase Footbridge as "when you gain a card you bought" if you want to save a comma. It's pretty much just a style choice, but both are on official cards. Haggler and Hoard one way and Haunted Woods and Swamp Hag the other.
Sightseer should technically have "[$VP] or +[$VP]" since they're technically different things that just use the same icon, but this is a novel enough mechanic for you to be able to simply define it as both. You'll have to define in the "rulebook" what happens when you get VP tokens from somewhere other than the general pool; are you emptying Landmarks twice as fast and do you fail to get double from a Gathering? Also, you might use "rest" instead of "others" if you want to be consistent.
Camel Rock shouldn't have the +.
There's not technically a problem with it, but "after you gain" on Summerstone Castle is non-standard and may be satisfied by "when" like most other things that check for gaining. Probably not worth it unless you need to redo anything else on this one.
Swordplay Arena might want to set the Sport aside, not simply reveal it, unless you're hoping it gets pseudo-throned by somebody playing it before Swordplay Arena plays it. (Playing it at the start of the next turn is a hilarious way to avoid activating if the game ends on that pile, lol.)

Completely unrelated, but I learned that style guides have a general consensus that all parts of hyphenated titles are impacted by title case. (Hilariously, DXV is inconsistent with this on official media. I believe Ill-Gotten Gains is the only one where the letter word is capitalized; City-state is not, and I think every instance of "Clean-Up" isn't.)
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Snorka

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2024, 05:41:15 pm »
0

I don't really have any comments on the power levels, but here are some minor wording thoughts if you're interested.
Thank you so much for the wording help! I will implement these when I reupload everything.

Quote
Completely unimportant, but if you want to eliminate the dividing line and the "while this is in play" on Extreme Canoeist, you may be able to put "Until then, when you win a Sport, get the Trophy a second time."
Initially I thought there was a problem with this because the "until then" wording means the effect ends before you can use it on your turn. But since you can only win Sports between turns, that doesn't actually matter. I'll also change the wording to "get the Trophy an additional time" so it can be Throned.

Quote
You excluded a space before the opening parenthesis on Table Tennis. UNACCEPTABLE! lol (and Swordfighter and probably every use of one. I'm wondering if that's an issue from Shard, perhaps.)
No, not an issue with Shard, just a consistent issue with my grammar. Ever since I was young I have forgotten to put a space in front of parentheses, probably because I wanted to make it clear what the parenthetical phrase was attached to, or to signal that there's no breath or break before the parentheses. I will fix this.

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I assume your fine with the players tracking the order of the revealed cards with Air Sports? It doesn't say to choose the order or discard them, so that technically means they stay as they were.
Currently, yeah, I'm fine with that.

Quote
Hot-Air Balloon doesn't specify, but it seems to logically follow that it only works three times because it doesn't say to leave the Sport there or set the Sport aside again.
Don't crucify me, but "hot-air" should be hyphenated because "hot" isn't modifying "balloon."
Currently working on a fix for the functionality there. I figure that if it's touching the hot air, the balloon is probably pretty hot! Well anyway it seems it's correct with or without the hyphen. I think I'll add a hyphen anyway, though.


Quote
Sightseer should technically have "[$VP] or +[$VP]" since they're technically different things that just use the same icon, but this is a novel enough mechanic for you to be able to simply define it as both. You'll have to define in the "rulebook" what happens when you get VP tokens from somewhere other than the general pool; are you emptying Landmarks twice as fast and do you fail to get double from a Gathering? Also, you might use "rest" instead of "others" if you want to be consistent.
I really don't want to make the wording any longer, so I'll just define in the rulebook. Yes, the Landmark will empty twice as fast if it has a limited supply of tokens on it. Also Aqueduct and Defiled Shrine fail to give double VP with Sightseer.

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(Playing [the Sport from Swordplay Arena] at the start of the next turn is a hilarious way to avoid activating if the game ends on that pile, lol.)
The real reason for that is that I never want Sports to be played midway through someone's turn, even in the Buy phase.
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461.weavile

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Re: Dominion: Wii Sports Resort
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2024, 09:02:21 am »
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(Playing [the Sport from Swordplay Arena] at the start of the next turn is a hilarious way to avoid activating if the game ends on that pile, lol.)
The real reason for that is that I never want Sports to be played midway through someone's turn, even in the Buy phase.
It's cool that it does both functions within one mechanism.
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