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[faust]

First of all, the game is just too dry. It makes a world of difference to me when the calculations involve transforming resources to plant a forest to raise the oxygen level to raise the temperature to get a free ocean... versus taking this tile to get 4 points which means I get 3 more points from this next tile, and 7 points for the completed column.

But most importantly I find that in Azul, the course of events is too random for me to invest the energy in boring calculations ("he takes this - she takes this - i take this - etc etc ... so that means HE gets the 50 red tiles and not me"). More than once I have gotten screwed over, not by a perfidious alliance between my opponents to put me down, but instead a suboptimal move by them because they failed to count tiles or points correctly (and admitted so afterwards).
- William Sonntag

Swowl has been removed from the shelf! They were Azul, Spiel des Jahres 2018, a Vanilla Townie!

Night 2 begins now and lasts at least 48 hours (but probably more because board games). Night actions are due by October 04, 2024, 11:30:00 am.

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

Would El Grande win the SdJ today? Certainly not. I think it’d be a strong contender for the Kennerspiel, but the current jury would not pick a game as heavy as El Grande for the SdJ. The game was a great pick back in 1996: the jury wanted to reward innovation in heavy games, and that’s exactly what they did. But the jury has moved on, and there’s now a separate award for games like El Grande.
- Chris Wray

LaLight has received a negative review! They were El Grande, Spiel des Jahres 1996, a Town Rolestopper!

In other news: I'm in Essen and have tested ten games across two days. Current favorites are Daybreak and Hegemony. The convention continues for two more days, so expect spotty modding for a bit.

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (8): Cuzz, mcmcsalot, Awaclus, EFHW, Robz888, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah, shraeye

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 starts now and lasts until October 09, 2024, 02:10:00 pm.

Thread unlocked!

[Awaclus]

I guess we no-exile today. Vote: No exile

[Robz888]

Why?

[Robz888]

(Also I apologize for not being around for deadline yesterday!)

[Awaclus]

Because I didn't remember that the traitor could be 1-shot exileproof.

Unvote

[Robz888]

Scum seemingly took several modifications. We’ve uncovered, what four town PRs?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m only counting three. Rolestopper, cop, and there is a tracker claim. The neighbors were just town set up, or at least that is the way I read it. Did I miss one?

[Robz888]

Oh right the neighbor thing was automatic. So three.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh right the neighbor thing was automatic. So three.

Two if efhw is lying. Result please efhw

[mcmcsalot]

Obvisouly lalight is the correct nk regardless of efhw telling the truth or not so can’t read anything into that.

Awesome that we can read into the lalight wagon though!

[EFHW]

I have been told that Robz had no targets.

[EFHW]

Before you ask me why, I'll just say that I scumread him for a reason I prefer not to disclose right now.

[Cuzz]

Robz and Awaclus with no targets and yet I still kinda want to exile both of them!

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning! It’s the weekend so I probably won’t miss a terrible lot but I’m heading to the airport on a few hours, and sometime tomorrow I’ll be London, then Copenhagen. So, I’m fully off line once that starts to happen. I apologize for the absence, and then I’m going to be out of synch with time for a week, but I think that won’t be too big of a deal.

I 100% believe that there are multiple baddies on Swowl’s wagon, so my vote of going to be somewhere there. I’m not as convinced by my town reads as I was before so I’m shifting my towncore around a bit.

Awaclus, can you be more explicit for me about why no exile isn’t the play today? It seems like that is the best move since if we misexile this time we lose, right? And if we exile the exile-proof traitor, then it doesn’t hurt us because it’s not a misexile and the next day we just exile them again? What am I missing? I know I’m not the best at puzzling these scenarios, so I’d appreciate the help!

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, can you be more explicit for me about why no exile isn’t the play today? It seems like that is the best move since if we misexile this time we lose, right? And if we exile the exile-proof traitor, then it doesn’t hurt us because it’s not a misexile and the next day we just exile them again? What am I missing? I know I’m not the best at puzzling these scenarios, so I’d appreciate the help!

If we exile the exile-proof traitor today, it doesn't hurt us because it's not a misexile and the next day we just exile them again. If we no-exile today and exile the exile-proof traitor tomorrow, we lose, because scum gets two kills before we get a successful exile, which puts us at 3v3, at which point the traitor and mafia can all just claim if they don't already know each other's identities and there's no way we can ever exile scum again.

[Awaclus]

And the same principle applies later if we exile mafia today. Basically we can't afford to misexile, and we can only afford to fail to exile once (either a no-exile or a failed exile attempt of the exile-proof traitor, but not both).

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, but wouldn't want to still no exile today not to risk misexiling and losing now?

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, but wouldn't want to still no exile today not to risk misexiling and losing now?

No exile and then 1-shot exhile proof traitor intentionally getting themself exhiled loses us the game.

[Robz888]

It definitely does not seem like the benefits of No Exile outweigh the potentially fatal consequences, so let's take that off the table.

[Robz888]

Alright, I'm going to try to do some wagon analysis.

Day 1

Cuzz (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Galzria
jotheonah (1): Swowl
Galzria (2): shraeye, scolapasta
scolapasta (7): Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah, mcmcsalot

Day 2

LaLight (3): Swowl, shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Swowl (6): LaLight, Awaclus, mcmcsalot, Cuzz, jotheonah, EFHW
Cuzz (1): Robz888

Jo, Cuzz, mcmc, and EFHW were on both mis-exiles.

Shraeye was on neither of them.

Awaclus, WCD, and myself were on one but not the other.

On both days, both major wagons (at least at the end) were on what are now confirmed townies. This means that scum were sitting pretty and didn't necessarily have to scramble. On the other hand, moving from LL to swowl was a necessity given the claim, so scum who were around then would probably have made the switch just to not appear suspicious.

[Robz888]

So on Day 1, either ALL the scum are on the wagon, or either shraeye or Awaclus is scum.

Ditto for Day 2, except it's shraeye or WCD (or me, in fairness).

Process of elimination seems to point to shraeye, although it seems a little weird to punish him for NOT exiling townies.

[Robz888]

Vote: shraeye

[Awaclus]

No exile and then 1-shot exhile proof traitor intentionally getting themself exhiled loses us the game.

To win the game, we have to exile the traitor no matter what, so the traitor doesn't even have to intentionally get themselves exiled. No exile plus a 1-shot exile-proof traitor existing at all in the game already loses us the game.

Okay, but wouldn't want to still no exile today not to risk misexiling and losing now?

No, because we have to assume that we lose if we no-exile, and losing later is not better than losing now. We know scum has at least one bonus, we have a reason (EFHW's claim, which objectively has some greater than zero chance of being true) to suspect they could have another one, and the traitor's exile-proof seems like one of the more likely abilities for scum to pick.

The benefit from no-exiling is also substantial, but hitting an exile-proof traitor gives the same benefit, and hitting a regular traitor lets us no-exile safely the following day.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thanks, y’all for the patient explanation. I appreciate it.

And thanks, Robz for the exile wagons.

I was teaching when the claim and shift happened, but there was no way Swowl seemed to me at all  like scum so I wouldn’t have moved there.

But I’m still intrigued about why every Joth wagon seems to evaporate. If all the baddies chose the option to know each other, they wouldn’t go there, which is two more votes he’s not going to get. And the people who have voted for him have flipped green (Swowl, LaLight).

Vote: Joth