Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cuzz]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

I thought about that before the game started and honestly I'd just go with no modifs both as traitor and as scum. the modifications are fun, sure, but they don't really seem so good as to give town cops and stuff

I knew someone would come in and explain why the least fun choice is actually the correct way to go.

[mcmcsalot]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

[LaLight]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

I thought about that before the game started and honestly I'd just go with no modifs both as traitor and as scum. the modifications are fun, sure, but they don't really seem so good as to give town cops and stuff

I knew someone would come in and explain why the least fun choice is actually the correct way to go.

honestly makes me sad too

[Galzria]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

I’m not certain that it’s anti-town, but I don’t see any pro-town reason for it. It would make good discussion post game, sure - but as you point out, the only ones to have actually made any decisions were scum. And there’s no way to use publicly stated opinions as truthful facts - for example if Cuzz says “I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.” And then a redirector flips, that doesn’t clear Cuzz in any way.

If anything, I think it’s a way to try and drive engagement in a “safe” way, which is slightly scummy. However, plenty of town do it, so it’s not entirely a tell.

[EFHW]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

What is protown in this? Why call it anything?

[Robz888]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

I’m not certain that it’s anti-town, but I don’t see any pro-town reason for it. It would make good discussion post game, sure - but as you point out, the only ones to have actually made any decisions were scum. And there’s no way to use publicly stated opinions as truthful facts - for example if Cuzz says “I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.” And then a redirector flips, that doesn’t clear Cuzz in any way.

If anything, I think it’s a way to try and drive engagement in a “safe” way, which is slightly scummy. However, plenty of town do it, so it’s not entirely a tell.

Am I missing something, or is this just incredibly anti-town?

Like, let's say theoretically Cuzz IS mafia, and theoretically the Traitor knows it because the Traitor took that buff, hasn't Cuzz just effectively winked at the Traitor and confirmed, "I know who you are!" That has to be at least somewhat useful for scum plus traitor—not just to know who each other are, but to covertly let the other person/persons know that they know.

In fact this seems so bad and scummy I think I might be missing something? But if I'm not, Vote: Cuzz

[Awaclus]

Vote: Cuzz

[mcmcsalot]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

What is protown in this? Why call it anything?

Yea I guess I was leaning more toward the “it will drive engagement” and since town didn’t have any decisions to make we aren’t giving scum any info by stating our preferences.

As galz pointed out it’s not like we can actually use the stated opinion to clear anyone but we could try to intuit a read out of how people answer.

The more people talked about it the more i am realizing how helpful it could be for scum/traitor.

[Galzria]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

I’m not certain that it’s anti-town, but I don’t see any pro-town reason for it. It would make good discussion post game, sure - but as you point out, the only ones to have actually made any decisions were scum. And there’s no way to use publicly stated opinions as truthful facts - for example if Cuzz says “I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.” And then a redirector flips, that doesn’t clear Cuzz in any way.

If anything, I think it’s a way to try and drive engagement in a “safe” way, which is slightly scummy. However, plenty of town do it, so it’s not entirely a tell.

Am I missing something, or is this just incredibly anti-town?

Like, let's say theoretically Cuzz IS mafia, and theoretically the Traitor knows it because the Traitor took that buff, hasn't Cuzz just effectively winked at the Traitor and confirmed, "I know who you are!" That has to be at least somewhat useful for scum plus traitor—not just to know who each other are, but to covertly let the other person/persons know that they know.

In fact this seems so bad and scummy I think I might be missing something? But if I'm not, Vote: Cuzz

I generally agree with your line of thinking, however two thoughts cross my mind about it:

First, I'm not sure scum!Cuzz would be so bold as to open the conversational dialog with that. If somebody else had come along and said "Let's talk setup" and then Cuzz jumped in and said "yada yada wink wink traitor yada yada", that might be different. But it plays a dangerous game to start that conversation himself and jump right to that from a scum perspective.

Second, your logic doesn't entirely follow - because Mafia doesn't default know who Traitor is or vice versa, nor do they know if the other took that enchancement. So even if Cuzz is Mafia, per your example, he wouldn't know if the Traitor took that enhancement or not. Granted, he could still make the post and hope the Traitor reads it as "I know who you are", but I don't think it's as straightforward as you're suggesting.

Regardless, while the second point could probably be argued either way, I feel like the first point stands - at least at this time. I just don't think Scum!Cuzz opens the dialog that way with that intent. Is it really worth that risk?

- - - - -

As a secondary point, having had some time to mull it over - I agree with you that the dialog in general has no pro-town value but COULD actually be quite anti-town. Town has a default roll for PR's at 1. That number goes up every time Scum chooses an additional enhancement. Mafia, knowing how many enhancements they took, know how many additional PR's they provided town (well, they know a minimum number of additional PR's provided. Traitor can also provide Town additional PR's). Thus they have a much better baseline idea of how many town PR's might exist. The dialog around what scum might have chosen COULD help inform scum in hunting for potential town PR's.

[Galzria]

Vote: Shraeye for not posting yet.

Vote: Mcmc (again) for Survivalist Mindset (I understand your frustration here. Been in your shoes in returns past. Doesn't mean you're not scum) and for the support/response to Cuzz, especially as it felt like you were simultaneously supporting it by calling it pro-town, while also hedging by noting that it could be a signal post - which in turn, as it happens, falls more in line with what a signal post in my mind would look like (compared to Cuzz's as Robz suggested, as detailed in my previous post).

[WestCoastDidds]

I wish that fausty was available for chatting…I am super curious about the how the gamecon has gone. It’s a bucket list item for me, but it’s always during my semester so I need to do it in a sabbatical year which is a rare thing.

Didds are you a professor? What do you teach?

I am! In Communication Studies at a small liberal arts college in central Texas.  What do you do?  I thrive on knowing folks as actual people.

Awa, congratulations on your graduation!  Your music is amazing. You have a whole range of talents that I can't even begin to fathom.

[WestCoastDidds]

Shraeye, where you at?? Also, there is no nearly enough Joth-ity up in this joint.

I have played exactly one game with Cuzz. He was scumdiliicious and was hovering somewhere above lurking so this seems way more so he is already doing more and thus obv!town to me.

[Swowl]

I’m so excited for you! And for us! There will be a Joth bébé, then a tiny Light beam, then a Swowl owlet!

I love you so much sometimes... my wife is gonna be super confused about the amount of baby owls that start to appear in the house

[Swowl]

Awaclus, how is your music? Are you still taking classes? I’ll be in Copenhagen for a conference in a couple of weeks, but I seem to have the idea that you are somewhere further north than that. Norway?

It's like this and I'm trying to get better at it, as usual. I graduated this spring so I'm now a business IT BBA and unemployed.

I'm in Finland actually, but you got the general idea right at least.

dope trumpet man. not familiar with the original soundtrack, but it sounds good.

[Swowl]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

I thought about that before the game started and honestly I'd just go with no modifs both as traitor and as scum. the modifications are fun, sure, but they don't really seem so good as to give town cops and stuff

I knew someone would come in and explain why the least fun choice is actually the correct way to go.

No mods is for sure the best play. Although, the least fun. And if I had to lean fun vs best on the general FDS group... I am gonna weigh everyone in at "drunk cat looking for a good time... but also wants to win".

I would be surprised if there were no mafia or traitor mods.

However,

1) Neighborhood is interesting because the concern would be chat cop... but then the concern would be hood... so wifom.
2) While I get the value in 1 shot no ex - I don't think it holds up against roles that town roles could role.
3) Traitor taking redirector without knowing skum seems not good... and 2 roles would be bold.
4) Watcher is actually a really interesting one, especially if they only take that one. IT leaves a lot of open space for fake claims and could help iso PRs/Vts.
5) Re Director and Roleblocker seem like the weak links in this set up for mafia. Without a doctor or a real cop or something it seems not worth it

[LaLight]

I don't think Cuzz'question is any scummy, we needed to start a conversation and this topic starter is as good as any

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m so excited for you! And for us! There will be a Joth bébé, then a tiny Light beam, then a Swowl owlet!

I love you so much sometimes... my wife is gonna be super confused about the amount of baby owls that start to appear in the house

❤️
I can start sending her owlet pics. They are significantly cuter than cygnets which is guess is more apt.

[WestCoastDidds]

Faust when you get a minute can you prod Shraeye? Guessing he didn’t realize we started?

[EFHW]

I don't think Cuzz'question is any scummy, we needed to start a conversation and this topic starter is as good as any

We did need a topic starter, but this is the kind that leads town to say too much and hand the game to scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW, can you help me understand? How could town reveal too much? It’s not like we got any choices

[faust]

Faust when you get a minute can you prod Shraeye? Guessing he didn’t realize we started?

Prod sent.

[EFHW]

EFHW, can you help me understand? How could town reveal too much? It’s not like we got any choices

I'm just speaking from experience.

[EFHW]

vote: Cuzz

[Cuzz]

Should we go around the table and say which modifications we would have chosen as scum?

I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.

This actually feels like a pretty pro town thing. There is no way it signals anything to mafia because they along with the traitor were the ones with actual decisions to make. Though it maybe helps traitor signal to mafia?

I’m not certain that it’s anti-town, but I don’t see any pro-town reason for it. It would make good discussion post game, sure - but as you point out, the only ones to have actually made any decisions were scum. And there’s no way to use publicly stated opinions as truthful facts - for example if Cuzz says “I probably would have done learning the traitor’s ID. And the neighbor swap, that one just seems like a lot of fun.” And then a redirector flips, that doesn’t clear Cuzz in any way.

If anything, I think it’s a way to try and drive engagement in a “safe” way, which is slightly scummy. However, plenty of town do it, so it’s not entirely a tell.

Am I missing something, or is this just incredibly anti-town?

Like, let's say theoretically Cuzz IS mafia, and theoretically the Traitor knows it because the Traitor took that buff, hasn't Cuzz just effectively winked at the Traitor and confirmed, "I know who you are!" That has to be at least somewhat useful for scum plus traitor—not just to know who each other are, but to covertly let the other person/persons know that they know.

In fact this seems so bad and scummy I think I might be missing something? But if I'm not, Vote: Cuzz

What you’re missing is that your logic is entirely backwards. You say “let’s say theoretically Cuzz IS mafia” and then you explain why that would make what I said scummy, which is a completely empty argument in the real world, where if you’re town you’re actually supposed to not know my alignment, you’re supposed to read what I say, and then if you feel like it try to determine if it’s more likely that town or mafia would say such a thing.

This whole accusation is just really very silly. My prompt was a bit facetious in that I wasn’t really expecting everyone to give an answer, but it is just so utterly neutral in terms of being pro or anti town and you have to cook up a convoluted traitor winking scheme to suggest otherwise. Which, sure, could scum do what you suggest to gain a tiny edge? Maybe, and tbh I hadn’t thought about that.

But is that what I was doing? Of course not because it’s nuts, and I personally never would as scum because why would I come out of the gate attracting massive attention to myself and immediately drawing votes (which I *did* expect because people always vote the first person to say anything remotely interesting on D1 because they want a shiny object to give a shadow of justification for their post-RVS cases. but also I didn’t care because I’m town this game and I don’t feel like playing super tight and cautious).

The point as others have mentioned was just to get people talking. In a lot of games, what we normally call setup talk and rolefishing IS scummy, but here scum just straight up has more info than town and having people on the record saying things where town is just gonna harmlessly answer honestly and scum actually has to decide whether and how to lie is pro town.

But anyway, the game wasn’t really gaming before my post and now it is so I think I mostly accomplished something positive. 

[Cuzz]

Apologies for the atrocious mixed metaphor in that last post I noticed immediately after it went up.