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[schadd]

Stephanie Hartshorn - Jewel Boxes, 2024 - Oil on board

vote count C.2

Robz888 (5/5): Robz888, jotheonah, mcmcsalot, Awaclus, MiX
Eevee (5/5): Eevee, Robz888, jotheonah, mcmcsalot, Cuzz
mcmcsalot (5/5): mcmcsalot, Robz888, jotheonah, MiX, Eevee
jotheonah (5/5): jotheonah, Robz888, Eevee, Awaclus, MiX
MiX (5/5): MiX, Cuzz, Robz888, Jack Rudd, Eevee
Cuzz (4/5): Cuzz, Robz888, MiX, jotheonah
Awaclus (1/5): Awaclus
scolapasta (1/5): scolapasta
Jack Rudd(1/5): Jack Rudd

the coalition phase ends September 04, 2024, 07:00:00 pm. for the coalition to be selected, five players must vote for the same list of names.

what those big line separators indicate is that each of those votes is a different coalition. if any of them were the same set of names, i would group them together within the line separators

[mcmcsalot]

Robz you posted: Robz, mcmc, joth, eevee, cuzz

I like the : (Robz, mcmc, joth) part and offered to add eevee who I think you can read well you add mix, with the idea I can read Mix well

You respond by saying you agree with my theory and in practice but you cant read mix well.

Then Joth posts: Robz, Joth, Eevee, Mix, Awaclus which is the same as my group but subs out me for awaclus.

And you like that list but sub eevee out for me and post: Robz, Joth, Mcmc, Mix, Awaclus.

So based on that you are now good with including mix but no longer want to include eevee??

Yep. The double ?? suggests incredulity but you accurately described my thought process!

Then could you elaborate. What changed your mind on including Mix and why did you take out eevee?

I took out Eevee because of the daychat thing. I thought that was obvious.

I added Mix because you and Joth want him in the coalition, I don't have a strong feeling for or against, and we'll have to make concessions in order to have five people approve the same coalition. Hemming and hawwing over individual selections will end up being anti-town.

Gotcha, that makes sense.

Remove: All

Add: Mcmc
Add: Robz
Add: Awaclus
Add: Mix
Add: Joth

With the added Caveat that I think Cuzz is towny and would hapily have him in the coalition

[Cuzz]

Oh and to clarify that post was bolded upon initial typing. I took the bolding out when I realized what was happening

Can you explain what was happening exactly?

Yea! I typed the following post with the removal and adding bolded:

"Remove: All

Add: Mcmc
Add: Robz
Add: Cuzz
Add: Mixx
Add: Eevee

Adding Cuzz for activity and townieness. Removing Joth for scu"

And as I was typing scum I stopped and thought to myself oh god I am omgus scum reading joth for losely D1 scumreading me for being active for the millionth time and I absolutely must stop. Then I removed the bolding so as to not change my current coalition of me, robz, joth, eevee, mix and continued to make the post because I think its helpful.

Also I know that the fact that I frequently scum read Joth as town early on in a game would seem to be counter to the fact that I think I can read Joth well however my "ability to read X player well" was directed at the ability to correctly guess the players alignment late game via a re-read.

Ok but a misplaced scumread is of such less consequence in this game. You’re not going to mislynch someone by leaving them off your list. But if you put someone on your list you’re saying “I think this person is town,” and your reference to misreading joth in other games says nothing to justify a townread on him this game.

[jotheonah]

My bottom two slots are very open, which is why I want to hear more from Jack and scola.

But mcmc and Cuzz are excluded by design.

It’s not that either of them is being scummy per se (the randomness thing is barely a case, even I admit). But when I think about how active a role scum is most likely taking in the coalition shaping, those are the slots I’m drawn to.

I think taking out active players because they are "likely taking an active role in coalition shaping" is a very bad idea.

So you don’t think scum is trying to influence the coalition? All I’m saying is, I don’t want a list that includes everyone who has taken an active role in shaping the coalition because that list almost certainly includes scum. Some highly active names need to be excluded— and some lurkers included.

[mcmcsalot]

Let me elaborate Cuzz.

My Coalition is formed from players I think I can or can mutually read each other well at an endgame scenario. I include Joth in those players (alongside robz, mix, and to a lesser degree you and eevee). If at any time I get a scum read on one of those players, having a scum read on them would take priority over being able to read them well and I would want to remove them from my coalition.

I got a scum read on joth from him wanting to exclude me and you from his coalition based on our activity level. I went to remove joth from my coalition and add you. I then realized I was doing something I do to often (early scumreading joth for early scum reading me) and that realization nullified my scum read on joth. I still think he's wrong and should not exclude me and you from his coalition for being active but my thinking he's wrong and shouldn't do what he is doing does not make me think he's scum.

I then made a joke that the interaction and my thought process should mean me and Joth must be town.

Lastly to explain my current coalition (me, robz, joth, mix, awaclus). I included eevee in the first place based on robz and joth ability to read him in the late game, robz no longer wants him(I agree his daychat post is ever so slightly more likely to be posted by scum) and joth has said he doesn't read eevee well. I was reminded that robz believes he can read awaclus well and so I am  okay adding him in.

At this point I would still like you in the coalition based on my townread of you but I also want some legit early wagons for a coalition so I leave my coalition as (me, robz, joth, mix, awaclus) with the statement that I find you towny and would put you in happily.

[jotheonah]

I think a list that includes myself, Robz, mcmc, and Cuzz is very likely to contain scum. Because if we’re all town, what exactly is scum doing right now? Sitting back and letting us sort things out? I don’t think that’s 5-dimensional chess, it’s just common sense.

[mcmcsalot]

My bottom two slots are very open, which is why I want to hear more from Jack and scola.

But mcmc and Cuzz are excluded by design.

It’s not that either of them is being scummy per se (the randomness thing is barely a case, even I admit). But when I think about how active a role scum is most likely taking in the coalition shaping, those are the slots I’m drawn to.

I think taking out active players because they are "likely taking an active role in coalition shaping" is a very bad idea.

So you don’t think scum is trying to influence the coalition? All I’m saying is, I don’t want a list that includes everyone who has taken an active role in shaping the coalition because that list almost certainly includes scum. Some highly active names need to be excluded— and some lurkers included.

Yes and no. I don't think scum is taking any more of an active role in forming the coalition then they do in getting a D1 exhile through. I guess other people may fear this whole 5 town coalition thing happening and so scum would want to work really hard to make that not happen but I just don't see that being so likely that scum would play any differently than usual.

I also don't really think activity relates that closely to alignment. Overall I think that active players are active and lurky players are lurky, it's only when comparing X player as town to the same player as scum where I think you could find some correlation between activity and alignment.

I definitely do NOT think we should include lurkers in the coalition just because "there must be scum within the currently active pool"

[jotheonah]

You don’t think day chatting scum is saying “you get in there, I’ll hang back?”

[mcmcsalot]

I think a list that includes myself, Robz, mcmc, and Cuzz is very likely to contain scum. Because if we’re all town, what exactly is scum doing right now? Sitting back and letting us sort things out? I don’t think that’s 5-dimensional chess, it’s just common sense.

Our coalitions are not locked once voting for them either. I would be happy to change things up as more players get active, we are only a little bit past 24 hours

PPE:

You don’t think day chatting scum is saying “you get in there, I’ll hang back?”

I don't think one way or the other in regards to that. I think you are making a lot of assumptions (that both scum have already discussed how they are going to approach the coalition and fully fleshed out a plan withing 24 hours and then that of the discussed plan they decided one should take an active role and one should take a passive role)

[Robz888]

I think a list that includes myself, Robz, mcmc, and Cuzz is very likely to contain scum. Because if we’re all town, what exactly is scum doing right now? Sitting back and letting us sort things out? I don’t think that’s 5-dimensional chess, it’s just common sense.

There certainly could be scum in there, but on the other hand, let's say the mafia are scola and Jack Rudd.

Are we supposed to think that's impossible because neither of them have said anything yet? Obviously not.

I tend to agree with mcmc that in general you have active players and lurky players regardless of alignment. I'm sure there are some people who lurk somewhat more as town or scum, but we all know that like, for instance, mcmc is going to be an active day one leader no matter what, I'm generally not going to be lurking hard unless I'm in too many games or get totally overwhelmed at work or something, etc.

[schadd]

i'll note that the vote counting is not actually that difficult for this phase and i don't need any extra bookkeeping, the only thing is that i can sometimes miss votes when you don't have them at the beginning of a line

[Cuzz]

Add: mcmc

[Jack Rudd]

On a long journey. Will talk more when I get home.

[Awaclus]

Man, I have no idea how to play a phase where the point is to post a long list of townreads.

Add: Mcmc
Add: Robz
Add: Mix
Add: Joth

[Awaclus]

I guess I could add that I did not realize scum had daychat even though I read the setup extra carefully to make sure it didn't already answer the question I wanted to ask about removing everyone from your coalition list.

[Jack Rudd]

Add: MiX
Add: Robz888
Add: Cuzz
Add: Eevee

[jotheonah]

Remove: Robz888
Add: mcmcsalot

[jotheonah]

As I think about the brothers Robzalot and their play today I think I put the wrong one in my coalition.

[Cuzz]

Remove: MiX

Add: Awaclus

[Eevee]

As I think about the brothers Robzalot and their play today I think I put the wrong one in my coalition.

Can you elaborate? I have a thought re: the brothers, wondering if we've picked up on the same thing.

[Eevee]

Post count (includes pregame)

Awaclus 8
Robz 21
mcmc 27
joth 23
cuzz 45
Mix 5
Eevee 13
Jack Rudd 6
scolapasta 3

[Eevee]

As I think about the brothers Robzalot and their play today I think I put the wrong one in my coalition.

Can you elaborate? I have a thought re: the brothers, wondering if we've picked up on the same thing.

Oh, I missed your preceding post, we do not have the same thought.

My theory is that when the brothers are in the same game and one is mafia while other isn't, the mafia brother tries to buddy the other up so they wouldn't come after them (they are both strong and influential town presences). From that lens, mcmc would be my pick for scum within them. A lot of his posts are involving Robz this game this far.

But otoh mcmc is a great driver of the game and his approach is sensible for town as well. I didn't realize my coalition = 5 highest posters, but I'm not terribly unhappy about it. Should be generally easier to find mafia from the most active guys bracket and the chance of getting it right from the jump is probably higher than random if you only pick high posters. (And before you ask cuzz, my coalition list was made on townreads not activity. , but admittedly townreading more active people is a subconscious bias I've long suffered of.)

[mcmcsalot]

Okay current spots:

Robz888 (5/5):      mcmc, robz, joth, awaclus, mix
mcmcsalot (5/5):   mcmc, robz, joth, awaclus, mix
Awaclus (5/5):       mcmc, robz, Joth, awaclus, mix

cuzz (5/5):            mcmc, robz, joth, awaclus,         cuzz
Eevee (5/5):          mcmc, robz, joth,                      cuzz, eevee
jotheonah (5/5):    mcmc,         joth, awaclus, mix,          eevee
MiX (5/5):                        robz,                     mix,  cuzz, eevee, jack
Jack Rudd (5/5):               robz,                      mix, cuzz, eevee

[Eevee]

It's a surprising amount of consensus.

[MiX]

Ok so scola is thread spewed town? For not having any coalition votes? Is that a viable read in this game/meta?

By the way sorry for not posting much but I am involved in too many things 

Remove everyone

Add: Mix, cuzz, scola, mcmc, robz

Alternatively I can agree with the current coalition but I think there's like 0% chance of it being game winning. Mine trusts the bros, but that's about all it does.