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Author Topic: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies  (Read 5134 times)

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Donald X.

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Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« on: August 05, 2024, 03:02:48 am »
+25

As it was foretold so long ago, so it has come to pass: the Dominion: Rising Sun expansion. Here I am with previews.

The future of Dominion is things that happen in the future. Prophecies are landscapes that change the game, but don't apply at the start of the game; it takes Omens being played a certain number of times before they happen. And Omens are just cards with a Sun symbol, which means you remove a token from the Prophecy. Let's see some of each.





So let's say Rustic Village is in this game, and also Rapid Expansion, and also it's a 2-player game. Rapid Expansion starts with 5 tokens on it; each play of Rustic Village removes a token; when the last token is removed, now you're going to start setting aside gained Actions and Treasures and having them leap into play next turn. The Prophecy applies to everyone and is just part of the game once that last token leaves it. Further +Suns don't do anything. There's no guarantee the Prophecy will ever happen, but the Omens tend to really encourage it.

It's 5 tokens with 2 players, 8 with 3, 10 with 4, 12 with 5, and 13 with 6. So now you know that. There are 6 Omens and 15 Prophecies, and you only use one Prophecy per game, even if there are multiple Omens.

Let's look at those Omens again.
- River Shrine is a trasher, and also can gain you a card if you don't gain anything in the Buy phase. There are probably situations where that comes in handy. It's cumulative, two River Shrines will gain you two cards.
- Rustic Village is simply a village that lets you do a little filtering. It's a poor exchange rate but you'll do it plenty.
- Poet is one of those sometimes-Labs, this time drawing cards costing $3 or less.

And there are three Prophecies today.
- Rapid Expansion makes gained Actions and Treasures leap into play next turn. Gain 8 cards and you will have 8 things waiting. Gain a Copper and well that will be waiting. Most things are happy to be set aside like this, but some can be sad; consider Sculptor.
- Panic means all of your Treasures will go away, but give +2 Buys while they vanish. You will have to somehow make progress without Treasures, or else buy a lot of Coppers back. Which you'll have the buys to do; we think of everything.
- Kind Emperor simply hands over an Action at the start of each turn, and when you first trigger it. Take an expensive one, or the one that your hand needs.

That's the previews! While you can't play with the cards yet, the playtesters can, and there will be videos of them playing with the new cards through the week, probably showing up about an hour after the previews.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 03:04:44 pm by Donald X. »
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Joshua

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2024, 03:17:23 am »
+2

Prophecies seem like bangers, cant wait to see the other 12
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flynd

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2024, 03:22:51 am »
0

Do the Prophecies use a new token or do they reuse one of the existing tokens (coin tokens or debt tokens)?
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J Reggie

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2024, 03:25:00 am »
0

Interesting that +sun comes before +cards, I guess that's pretty thematic.

I like that Kind Emperor triggers when you remove the last sun, so you don't have that City effect of avoiding giving your opponent an advantage. Although that would be an interesting dynamic for a slightly less powerful effect.

With only six omens, I wonder how often prophecies will show up. Maybe some smart person can figure out the math on that  ;D

Dominionaer

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2024, 05:40:25 am »
+13

With only six omens, I wonder how often prophecies will show up. Maybe some smart person can figure out the math on that  ;D
Interestingly when building the kingdom with just Sun Rise piles it is mostly every time: roughly 3 out of 100 games are without Omen.
When using all randomizers (including removed cards) about 11.5 percent of the kingdoms demands a prophecy, every ninth game.
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marksim

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2024, 08:02:32 am »
+5

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys? 
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marksim

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2024, 08:10:36 am »
0

Will the Previews be available to play at some point like they have been in the past?  Or will it only be on videos until the full release?
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mxdata

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2024, 10:40:45 am »
+1

Panic + Capitalism would be a really bad combination .... probably best not to buy Capitalism in a game with Panic! In general, it seems to strongly favor non-Treasure engines. This is going to be pretty harsh in games where Treasures are the only source of coins!

River Shrine reminds me of Chapel + Alms in a way, letting you gain a card after trashing much of your hand. Seems like it'll be a strong opener!

I find it interesting that it's +sun and not -sun. -Sun would seem to make more sense, because you're removing a token from the Prophecy
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chipperMDW

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2024, 10:50:01 am »
+1

I find it interesting that it's +sun and not -sun. -Sun would seem to make more sense, because you're removing a token from the Prophecy

How do you know the tokens aren't negative?
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rickert

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2024, 11:02:46 am »
+3

Panic + Capitalism would be a really bad combination .... probably best not to buy Capitalism in a game with Panic! In general, it seems to strongly favor non-Treasure engines. This is going to be pretty harsh in games where Treasures are the only source of coins!

River Shrine reminds me of Chapel + Alms in a way, letting you gain a card after trashing much of your hand. Seems like it'll be a strong opener!

I find it interesting that it's +sun and not -sun. -Sun would seem to make more sense, because you're removing a token from the Prophecy

Thematically, I look at it as the sun coming up, another day has passed making it closer for the Prophecy to come true.
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Nukatha

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2024, 11:33:03 am »
+3

First impressions on the prophecies:
Rapid Expansion allows for playing a Treasure at the start of your turn. I always appreciate it when there is  new way to play a treasure in the action phase, it makes for interesting games. But also, there's no limit here, every treasure/action you gain gets set aside and autoplayed.
Am I correct to think that alongside a Stampede you'd get your full hand of 5+10 cards and 5 actions from the five horses?
Does a set-aside Siren still trash itself if you don't trash an action from your hand?
I'm sure there are other implications here, but I like it.

Panic: As others mentioned above, Begggar becomes amazing. Poor House does too as your deck's treasures get cleaned out. In a Loot game, Endless Chalice and Jewels become the only Loot you can keep.
 Stockpile also rarely gets discarded, so it can be retrieve from Exile. I assume you still collect debt at the end of a turn where you played Capital. You have to be extra careful to not lose your Humble Castle, but since Heirlooms don't have piles, you can keep playing them without losing them.
Actually, that's a funny play. Humble Castle, (or Sunken Treasure, Plunder) can be returned to its split pile to mess with the card order. Encampment/Plunder also can be silly, with how encampment also returns itself to the pile.
Games where Panic is triggered too early could turn into real slogs.

Kind Emperor. I'm glad to see the imperial regalia on a card, and that the player who triggers the prophecy gets first dibs. Games with this will be crazy, and I'm excited to see them. It'll be especially fun/absolutely demoralizing with 6/7/8-cost actions on the table. "Hmm, I want a Province. I'll pick up an Artisan, displace it into a Province, then get the Atisan back next turn and do it again".
Or pick up a King's court and immediately Develop it into a gold and a Province. I know I'm thinking too small right now, so we'll see where this goes.
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Jeebus

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2024, 12:20:20 pm »
0

First impressions on the prophecies:
Rapid Expansion
Does a set-aside Siren still trash itself if you don't trash an action from your hand?
No, Rapid Expansion is like all cards that move the gained card (Watchtower, etc.), it let's you dodge Siren and Gatekeeper because they lose track of the gained card.

GendoIkari

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2024, 01:29:09 pm »
0

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Donald X.

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2024, 01:51:40 pm »
+4

Do the Prophecies use a new token or do they reuse one of the existing tokens (coin tokens or debt tokens)?
It's a new token, that looks like the symbol.
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Donald X.

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2024, 01:54:05 pm »
0

Will the Previews be available to play at some point like they have been in the past?  Or will it only be on videos until the full release?
The previews aren't playable this week. Stef wasn't interested in doing the previews later, delayed, but did want like a weekend of "you get to play with the cards." But I can't really make any predictions where dominion.games is concerned.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2024, 01:59:32 pm »
0

Very simple and elegant new mechanic! Love it! A bit unfortunate there are only six Omens, but oh well. Part of what makes an expansion interesting are the new ways of using universal mechanics.

I lowkey hope that this expansion also features Traits, as the mechanic works well with Debt (I think) and a +Sun on play trait would be too perfect (or not). (Donald X can obviously estimate this far better than me lol)

Can't wait to see the other previews and the final product!
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mxdata

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2024, 02:14:13 pm »
0

I'm wondering if there'll be a way to add the sun tokens *back* to the Prophecy? Maybe that's what the Shadow cards do? Perhaps also that's why it says "+1 sun" and why there's a special kind of token for it (so that there's no chance of confusion with Villagers/Coffers/Favors in games with both a Prophecy and one or more of those). Like, you actually keep the token that you remove and then you can later add it back with a Shadow card? Which could be very useful with Prophecies like Panic that you really want to avoid in a lot of games
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Nukatha

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2024, 02:15:08 pm »
+6

A bit unfortunate there are only six Omens, but oh well.
It could be way worse, there are only 3 Looters in Dark Ages.
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mxdata

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2024, 02:26:17 pm »
0

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys?

Beggar + Panic + Guildhall would be a real killer combo
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mxdata

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2024, 02:32:39 pm »
0

Rapid Expansion + any Horse-gainer would be really interesting. Paddock = +$2 now and +4 Cards +2 Actions at the start of your next turn! Ride: $2 for +2 Cards +1 Action at the start of your next turn
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Águia Branca

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2024, 02:36:01 pm »
0

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys?

Beggar + Panic + Guildhall would be a real killer combo
I conjecture Panic does not come into play on most Beggar / Guildhall boards. The cost to buy an Omen is too great and you cycle very slowly with that combo.
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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2024, 02:48:03 pm »
0

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys?

Beggar + Panic + Guildhall would be a real killer combo
I conjecture Panic does not come into play on most Beggar / Guildhall boards. The cost to buy an Omen is too great and you cycle very slowly with that combo.

Not to mention Panic will not be there on most Beggar / Guildhall boards.
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mxdata

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2024, 02:54:39 pm »
+2

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys?

Beggar + Panic + Guildhall would be a real killer combo
I conjecture Panic does not come into play on most Beggar / Guildhall boards. The cost to buy an Omen is too great and you cycle very slowly with that combo.

Not to mention Panic will not be there on most Beggar / Guildhall boards.

Well yeah. Any triple combo is rare
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segura

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2024, 02:56:02 pm »
+1

Global rule changes are a fairly natural thing to implement on a landscape.

What makes this shine is that they are not just there during the entire game or whatever but happen in the mid- or endgame and that there is no fixed timer, like turn X or whatever, but a timer that is Kingdom-dependent (e.g. the two cantrip Omens will see more play on average than the terminal) and influenced by player decisions.
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Holger

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Re: Rising Sun Previews 1: Omens and Prophecies
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2024, 03:33:49 pm »
+2

Beggar + Panic seems kinda awesome.  A $2 Gold with + 6 buys?

Beggar + Panic + Guildhall would be a real killer combo
I conjecture Panic does not come into play on most Beggar / Guildhall boards. The cost to buy an Omen is too great and you cycle very slowly with that combo.

Not to mention Panic will not be there on most Beggar / Guildhall boards.

Well yeah. Any triple combo is rare

It's actually even rarer than a regular 3-card combo: There are 2.5 times more Prophecies than omens, so any given Prophecy will appear only 40% as often as any given kingdom card.
(Actually it's slightly less than 40%, since multiple omens in a kingdom still only have one Prophecy.)
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