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[EFHW]

I can be here for deadline.

[scolapasta]

So under what conditions is scola possibly town?

1. He was roleblocked twice. This only works if rb doesn't affect the bomb, because if it did, scum would use it with the nk. So double roleblock is not an answer.

2. He was redirected twice. I think that is rather more chaos than fits this setup. The duels are the game mechanism. It also raises the question of why did he claim. Was he ever at X-1? This is the only scenario in which he and Jimmmmm could both be town.

3. Jimmmmm was lying to set scola up to be exiled. That's risky. He could equally well be the one exiled. He hasn't made any effort at all towards pushing a scola exile.

I gather that #2 feels likely enough to enough people that scola is being let off the hook? Second guessing the mod isn't great scumhunting, but there are other reasons to think scola is not town.

1. Seeming way too prepared with his arguments.
2. Cluttering the thread.
3. Town rb is more of a nerf than anything helpful.
But he didn't present it that way or mention thinking about that.
4. Role blocking the bomb kind of breaks the game since the point was to explore the gladiator bomb mechanic.

I have to stop here for the night, but I want to go over the VCA as well.

I'm not sure if it's 1, 2, or 3 (which is why I'm not convinced yet on voting for Jimmmmm) but it's one of them - or something we're missing.

To defend myself on your other points:
1.  How do I seem too prepared? in what way? Just because I can explain why I did what I did? Isn't another reason for that being honest, i.e. being town?
2. I'm not sure what you define as clutter, but clearly (and not purposefully) the way I've played this game has been seen as scummy. So I've had to defend myself from so many different directions. So I've had lots of posts, almost all in response to someone asling me something or accusing me of something. I'm sure I would do that as scum, but I would defintely do that as town.
3. I think I did some - I saved it as my lost shot and I was wary of who to RB because I was afraid to block a town PR. I didn't block you because of the chance that you were town and that fang did in fact softclaim.
4. This goes along with 2nd guessing the mod, no?

Here's a question - if I'm scum then my claim is likely false, right? BUT I had to have known that I would be asked to claim first. So any lies would be likely to be caught. (and yes, I'm sure it'll be argued that that's why I didn't want to fully claim; the town side of that WIFOM is that I knew I had a good role that could catch a scum lie*).  So if I think I'm going to be caught, I think I'd try to be as honest as I could, do you agree? So whatpart of my claim do you think is honest and what part is not?

* and again as scum, why wold I continue to put myself on the line here? As scum, why not try to keep a low profile, claim something more simple than a JOAT? Or again, as town, I hoped to catch scum. I though tit had worked, until it was pointed out that I could be affected.

[scolapasta]

Oh, I also don't fully understand your point how a possible redirector would affect duels? Nor question why I claimed? it's plurality to I was at leata at a virtual X-1 (where the 1 would be the EOD).

[scolapasta]

Here's another question for mod:

If there are town and scum RBs, would they both interact with the Gladiator Bomb in the same way?

I've been assuming the answer here is yes, but I think it makes sense to confirm that assumption.

[scolapasta]

And while I'm at it, since it seems to be the seen as scumslip* why not:

Since how RB interacts with tracker and watcher and doctor is Public info, why is how it interacts with Gladiator bomb, not public info?

* the footnote here is that the first person to say this was Didds, who is my top suspect, so this may just be scum trying to make something out of nothing

[MiX]

If there are town and scum RBs, would they both interact with the Gladiator Bomb in the same way?

Since how RB interacts with tracker and watcher and doctor is Public info, why is how it interacts with Gladiator bomb, not public info?

That's just clarifying what feedback a role receives.

[scolapasta]

Since how RB interacts with tracker and watcher and doctor is Public info, why is how it interacts with Gladiator bomb, not public info?

That's just clarifying what feedback a role receives.

OK, fair enough. So just to confirm also:
A Gladiator bomb would not learn any indication they were roleblocked, correct?

[scolapasta]

Swowl, I find your VCAs super helpful. I know it’s an ish ton of work, so thank you.

It is very helpful. I think you underestimate faust a bit, though, saying scum!faust would never unvote scum!pasta there. He would. And he even has his history of suggesting the no exile to protect him.

I'll add I also appreciate these. I don't necessarily agree with you conclusions, but you do a great job with them and they also allow us to make our own conclusions.

[Swowl]

OK last one (appreciate the kind words, even though I know at least some of them have to come from skum!)

Vote Count 3.1
infangthief (2): joth, Didds
scolapasta (1): Swowl
Cuzz (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): faust
Not Voting (4): Jimmmmm, Cuzz, scolapasta, infangthief

Alright. so the above is where we start off, quite some time into the day (about half I think). It is pretty consistent to this point, I guess the key outlier is that fang was going for faust, but joth made a defense case and fang backed off.

faust votes Jimmm from shraeye
Shraeye votes Fang from Cuzz
Fang votes Didds
Swowl votes Shraeye from Pasta
Jimmm votes Cuzz

That gets us here:

infangthief (3): joth, Didds, shraeye
Jimmm(1): faust
Didds (1): Fang
Shraeye (1): Swowl
Cuzz (1): Jimmm
Not Voting (2): Cuzz, scolapasta

Ok so from here we have an UNK fang wagon with 2 town and didds. We also have a lot of unknowns on 1 off wagons. fang should be an easy exile for skum to jump on if needed, so we are looking for protection I guess here.

Pasta votes Joth - while saying Fang is the other top skum read. That could be sus there.

Vote Count 3.2
infangthief (3): joth, Didds, shraeye
Jimmmmm (1): faust
Didds (1): infangthief
shraeye (1): Swowl
Cuzz (1): Jimmmmm
joth (1): scolapasta
Not Voting (1): Cuzz

Some time goes. I post a case on Shraeye vs Jimmm. I ask Jimm to come with me to Shraeye. He does without hesitation

Jimmm votes Shraeye from Cuzz

Vote Count 3.3
infangthief (3): joth, Didds, shraeye
shraeye (2): Swowl, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): faust
Didds (1): infangthief
joth (1): scolapasta
Not Voting (1): Cuzz
(12 hours left)

Alright so now we are getting to some good stuff. We all know how this ends. So this is a great snap shot. Fang has been skum read by a lot of people, or at least unsure by a lot of people, like the whole game. Shraeye has pretty much just done whatever and my dumbass has just been tunnel locked on them. So how do we get a Shraeye exile here?

Cuzz votes Shraeye - to me at least, that is a huge potential partner vote with fang.
faust votes Shraeye from Jimmm - again... potentially skummy partner vibes here with fang.

We ride that to here, which is 3 hours to DL:
Vote Count 3.4
shraeye (4): Swowl, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, faust
infangthief (3): joth, Didds, shraeye
Didds (1): infangthief
joth (1): scolapasta

So at this point if fang is town then we assume faust is skum... and then who knows who else.. they could be anywhere. But, if fang is skum, then we assume faust is town and then there is also for sure skum in Jimm/Cuzz. It is important to note that Fang is still off of shraeye. The only other person off is Pasta who has said their next skum read is fang. so pasta could go fang, and fang obviously goes shraeye. That would tie the wagons at 4-4 meaning that fausts vote here was the decider essentially.

Shraeye votes Didds from Fang - they are claiming self prez, which at first made no sense, but it kind of actually does I guess now that we look at it.

****** Pasta votes Didds from Joth - I think we find something here. Pasta said Fang was next on their list earlier on, they even backed it up later responding to faust about a Jimm/WCD thing.

Then Joth hammers. However I want to focus on the snip it below, which is everything except Joth's hammer since we know Joth is town.

Puts us here:
shraeye (4): Swowl, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, faust
Didds (3): infangthief, shraeye, scolapasta
infangthief (2): joth, Didds

Pasta could of gone fang, the next top skum read he had, Fang... knowing sure well that shraeye would move to fang as well. Now that would be a tie wagon and the deciding voters would essentially be Joth or didds. The only people that have expressed the intent to hammer were Joth and didds, but both Joth and didds are on fang so they obviously prefer fang. So why oh why would pasta fade the potential of exiling their next best skum read at this point and instead go to Didds?

I need to go re read my own posts and put it all together but I wanna say that fang has been dismantled a few times, pasta has been dismantled a few times, and this is a bad look for both of them today.

[Swowl]

shraeye (3): Swowl, Jimmmmm, scolapasta
scolapasta (3): infangthief, Didds, faust
Robz888 (2): Awaclus, joth
infangthief (2): Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): shraeye
Awaclus (1): Cuzz

The above is where we are at right before pasta claims. one of the key issues I have had with the claim is that I thought it was too early. Hear me out. IFFF pasta is skum, that means that at this point the only potential skum partner he has that is not on a wagon is Cuzz. If there are, let's say... 2 town on his wagon... he is in a really rough spot. That is 5 green names that can vote for him vs shraeye. He also scrambles to Robz over fang, and just the scramble itself is

But then he claims and the gut reaction leaves us here below:

Vote Count 1.6
shraeye (3): Swowl, Jimmmmm, Robz888
scolapasta (3): infangthief, Didds, faust
Robz888 (3): Awaclus, joth, scolapasta
infangthief (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): shraeye
Awaclus (1): Cuzz

Pretty much just flip flops with pasta going to Robz and then Robz going to Shraeye.

Then we let some time set in and we get here:

Robz888 (5): Awaclus, joth, scolapasta, infangthief, Didds
shraeye (4): Swowl, Jimmmmm, Robz888, Mcmc
scolapasta (1):  faust
mcmcsalot (1): Shraeye
Awaclus (1): Cuzz

So, unfortunately the only 2 wagons available were Town Robz and Town Shraeye. So, at the time of the scatter after the claim any skum could hide anywhere, it doesn't matter. We can't get any real info out of that.
But I want to bring it back to the time of the claim. why claim there? I had asked pasta before and they said it was because deadline was close and they didn't want to risk it... but like.. can anyone actually relate to that? like if I were town in that spot... I would never ever claim there. I don't claim normally until I have to, so I guess I am kind of asking... but this is just... man that's skummy.

Then we have again the Day 2 dismantling of Pasta wagon to go to NOEX... which I will say, the day gives a slightly better look but it is again.
Then we have the Day 3 situation where pasta makes the move at the end of the day to *not* fang even though fang was the expressed skum read.

Now in fairness, this is looking at it as pasta is skum, so I am going to look at it as if they are town and see how that shakes out... but the fact that everytime their wagon goes away it ends up on town is ... yeah.

[Swowl]

the main issue here is that is pasta is skum then like Jimmm appears to be their most likely partner. And while I can tinfoil out how that makes sense... it is a stretch.

[faust]

1. He was roleblocked twice. This only works if rb doesn't affect the bomb, because if it did, scum would use it with the nk. So double roleblock is not an answer.

This is like, not at all obvious to me. Why would scum definitely use the roleblock with the nightkill? N2 they killed Awaclus, who presumably they knew or suspected to be a Doc, so not a Bomb. N3 it doesn't even hurt them as much if the Bomb dies. There's also an option that they already knew I was the Bomb.

[faust]

faust votes Shraeye from Jimmm - again... potentially skummy partner vibes here with fang.

Just to reiterate - it is literally impossible for me to be fang's partner.

So at this point if fang is town then we assume faust is skum... and then who knows who else.. they could be anywhere. But, if fang is skum, then we assume faust is town

Here you seem to be buying into there only being one Bomb. Haven't you defended the tow Bomb option? Why is it 1v1 now for you?

[faust]

I don't see much more activity with regards to rereads going on here now that Swowl has finished his VCA. It's also just a bit over 12 hours to deadline.

So back to Vote: EFHW

[faust]

I should note that we really need a hammer today if we don't want to let scum control the exile.

[Jimmmmm]

Alright. I've spent enough time today moving names and roles around my spreadsheet. I think Swowl is probably Town, and I think EFHW is more likely to be Town than faust. That leaves me with three scum in faust, scola, Didds and Cuzz.

I think scola is probably scum due to his claim and how it came out.
I think Didds is probably scum due to her narrative around Robz and Awaclus not adding up. I think it was convenient to despair about her reads as a way to emphasise her Diddsiness and try to put herself in a Towncore, and I just don't buy the reasons for the despair.
But I'm not sure in this case that "both probably" equates to "probably both". I think the question is, when scola raised the contradiction, could it have been guaranteed that Didds wouldn't also be contradicted? Maybe they were okay with both contradicting me, but that seems super risky if it doesn't come off. I think it works if they have a Rolecop, but not if they don't. And given that I'd have faust as the third here, how powerful can scum be when Town only has a Watcher, a Doctor and a Bomb?

I still think if scola is scum then faust is probably scum with him. faust was there for him when no one else was, and he knew he had the pull for it. At this point faust is probably scum even if scola is Town.

Then there's Cuzz, who has lurked most of the game and seemed more interesting in obscuring my question about his Awaclus read than answering it.

I think faust is the way to go here. I think if scola and Didds are both scum then the third is faust, and if not then it's both faust and Cuzz.

[WestCoastDidds]

If I had a scum team to coach me, I would have a way better fake claim than my real claim. That y’all like don’t like my targets isn’t at all sus, it’s typical (le sigh)

Swowl vca demonstrating how often Scola and Efang exiles have fizzled is helpful. I had remembered (or so I thought) that pasta had claimed at x-1, but it wasn’t even close to that. Fang, though, just kept sliding out from under usually because of Cuzz or Scola leaving or not joining

PPE another page

[Jimmmmm]

I can't say I'm comfortable going to bed with my vote down, but I'll definitely be around at deadline.

[faust]

Alright. I've spent enough time today moving names and roles around my spreadsheet. I think Swowl is probably Town, and I think EFHW is more likely to be Town than faust. That leaves me with three scum in faust, scola, Didds and Cuzz.

I think scola is probably scum due to his claim and how it came out.
I think Didds is probably scum due to her narrative around Robz and Awaclus not adding up. I think it was convenient to despair about her reads as a way to emphasise her Diddsiness and try to put herself in a Towncore, and I just don't buy the reasons for the despair.
But I'm not sure in this case that "both probably" equates to "probably both". I think the question is, when scola raised the contradiction, could it have been guaranteed that Didds wouldn't also be contradicted? Maybe they were okay with both contradicting me, but that seems super risky if it doesn't come off. I think it works if they have a Rolecop, but not if they don't. And given that I'd have faust as the third here, how powerful can scum be when Town only has a Watcher, a Doctor and a Bomb?

I still think if scola is scum then faust is probably scum with him. faust was there for him when no one else was, and he knew he had the pull for it. At this point faust is probably scum even if scola is Town.

Then there's Cuzz, who has lurked most of the game and seemed more interesting in obscuring my question about his Awaclus read than answering it.

I think faust is the way to go here. I think if scola and Didds are both scum then the third is faust, and if not then it's both faust and Cuzz.

Don't you just love a lengthy post of "faust is scum" with zero reasoning behind it?

[Jimmmmm]

If it works.

[faust]

PPE another page

How do you do that? Does it take twelve hours to compose a post like that?

[Jimmmmm]

If I had a scum team to coach me, I would have a way better fake claim than my real claim. That y’all like don’t like my targets isn’t at all sus, it’s typical (le sigh)

Depends on whether you had certain target claims you were avoiding.

[WestCoastDidds]

Awww, Jimmmm. Your entire reason for voting for me has nothing to do with how I’ve voted or what I have advocated, or even my role, but rather chatter about my frustration that we can’t seem to exile scum. It would be so much more compelling if it wasn’t just vibes. Instead, you’re like she says stuff about being frustrated and that leads you to ignore every VCA or claim interaction. There is nothing I can say that will improve your opinion because it’s based in things I was feeling at the moment. Alas and alack. That would be a bad way for us to lose.

[WestCoastDidds]

If I had a scum team to coach me, I would have a way better fake claim than my real claim. That y’all like don’t like my targets isn’t at all sus, it’s typical (le sigh)

Depends on whether you had certain target claims you were avoiding.

I don’t even understand at all

[WestCoastDidds]

PPE another page

How do you do that? Does it take twelve hours to compose a post like that?

Huh? I just got up and started reading from where I had to stop last night. I got to the end of page 85 and jotted down some thoughts. Then I moved to page 86