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[Swowl]

At this point I'm ready to vote, but I don't want to vote just before going to sleep, just in case.

Let me know if you have good reasons for holding off.

I feel like that is just you saying you wanna vote efoo?

Did you read my argument on why you and efoo should be removed from todays pool?

Probably at some point, but it didn't stick with me. I can see how from a town's perspective exiling among EFHW/me isn't the best bet though.

1-2 bombs faust/EFANG
1-2 Skum in claimed PRs

Let's exile Cuzz and deal with the rest later.

That is an extreme tldr;

[Swowl]

faust - What do you make of the fact that you and I are both still alive and obviously skum had no hits for pr hunting?

[Jimmmmm]

7 alive. Obviously 3 scum, 4 Town. joth also in the picture overnight.

Maybe scum have some sort of investigative role. Maybe it's a modified Rolecop so Bombs appear as VTs. 2 Nights had happened, and maybe the 2 investigated Townies are still alive so they know 2 VT/Bombs or 1 and 1 Watcher. They'll get joth's flip and a third result, but presumably only one of them will get that info. Maybe it's scola. At the start of the Day, 2 of them have a result on 2 of the 4 Townies, and 1 on 3 of the 4.

The idea is that there are relatively few non-Bomb PRs, and scum knows this but Town doesn't. The plan is to create a 1v1, with either scola or Didds on one side. Either they know my role, or they know it's some kind of tracking role since they have a Ninja. If they win the 1v1, they win the game. Otherwise, Town will assume that they caught the one scum among the claimed active roles, and look among the claimed VTs and Bombs for the remaining.

scola as expected is first in the claim order. He opens his net by naming 3 active roles and saying he used them every Night. He wants to be able to contradict me, but doesn't know if there'll be a contradiction between Didds and me. scola is pushed for more claiming. Maybe this was expected, but he can't fullclaim, so he lists my name among the people he targeted, knowing there'll be some way to contradict my claim.

Didds claims Tracker, maybe unsure whether I'm a Tracker or Watcher. Her results are safe from being contradicted by anyone else since she knows Swowl and faust (if Town) don't have active roles.

When I make my claim, nothing about it contradicts Didds', so scola completes the plan by contradicting my claim. From there they intend that either I'll be exiled or it will be assumed that Didds and I are both legit.

Alright, I can' complain... I asked for the hat.

so you are saying they have a role cop. The role cop guesses were really bad (except they don't know that because Bombs show up as VT also)... so they avoided VT results... kept shooting outside of that.

I mean again, I asked for it so whatever... but you don't see how a Skum Role Cop that gets the same result for VTs as Bomb is unfair here?
That is just saying "check player A" "player A is VT" ok let's just never fucking kill player A - we know they are not a PR and there is a chance they are the bomb.. so...like right?

That being said I appreciate your train of thought.

I feel like you're focusing on the wrong thing here haha. Maybe it's a full Rolecop. That actually works better since it could help with PoE. I don't know what's fair and what's unfair. The point with the VT/Bomb Rolecop wasn't that that was the specific Rolecop they must have if a normal Rolecop makes no sense. It was, maybe they have a way of gathering information, and here's one example of such a way that doesn't tell them who the Bomb/s are.

[faust]

Please don't pick random ass shit out and derail the convo - if you have something important I have missed, call it out - but also I have been tracking this since day 1 so I am pretty sure the info is in the pasta wagon here.

My biggest takeaway from D1 has for a long time been the fang wagon, which if scola were town is a all-town wagon.

[faust]

At this point I'm ready to vote, but I don't want to vote just before going to sleep, just in case.

Let me know if you have good reasons for holding off.

I feel like that is just you saying you wanna vote efoo?

Did you read my argument on why you and efoo should be removed from todays pool?

Probably at some point, but it didn't stick with me. I can see how from a town's perspective exiling among EFHW/me isn't the best bet though.

1-2 bombs faust/EFANG
1-2 Skum in claimed PRs

Let's exile Cuzz and deal with the rest later.

That is an extreme tldr;

It's a fine argument that only makes sense from a perspective that knows that you are town.

[faust]

faust - What do you make of the fact that you and I are both still alive and obviously skum had no hits for pr hunting?

Scum killed Awaclus, no?

[faust]

Other than that, yeah this is the only part that worries me a little with regards to you. For me, IDK they might have a Rolecop or something and know that I'm not a good kill. They might also just have gone for non-obvious kills to dodge Doctors (until the Doc died anyways).

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

When EFHW claimed the only people behind them were faust and Swowl.
They lose CC as bomb to both of those players.
They were subbed in. They could of created time. They didn't.

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC. Town Faust in this situation should not be suspecting EFHW, they should be looking at outside factors under the consideration that EFHW could be town. I hate me so much but if you are set on doing this I am strongly more you than Efoo.

Vote: faust

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: EFHW

Sorry if you've answered this, but is your argument more "There's only 1 Bomb", or "Scum would claim Bomb regardless of how many Bombs there are"?

[faust]

When EFHW claimed the only people behind them were faust and Swowl.
They lose CC as bomb to both of those players.
They were subbed in. They could of created time. They didn't.

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC. Town Faust in this situation should not be suspecting EFHW, they should be looking at outside factors under the consideration that EFHW could be town. I hate me so much but if you are set on doing this I am strongly more you than Efoo.

Vote: faust

No, man! Of course EFHW didn't play for time. Even if she subbed in, you know she still has access to the scum chat, right? There they would have planned who should claim Bomb. It's not any harder for scum!EFHW to fakeclaim here than it is for town!EFHW to trueclaim.

You did all your VCA and didn't notice that anyone who suspects EFang ends up dead?

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

Sorry if you've answered this, but is your argument more "There's only 1 Bomb", or "Scum would claim Bomb regardless of how many Bombs there are"?

Essentially it is: We have three pools:
Bombs: {faust, EFHW]
Non-Bomb PRs: {scola, Didds, Jimmmmm}
VTs: {Cuzz, Swowl}

I'm pretty sure there's exaclty one scum in each of those pools. I also know that I'm town.

Add to that that EFang has been extremely scummy, and most of the town players who died suspected her... yeah that seems like a very good choice.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm pretty sure there's exaclty one scum in each of those pools.

I feel like the only way to assume this is to either assume that there's only 1 Bomb or that scum would claim Bomb.

[Swowl]

When EFHW claimed the only people behind them were faust and Swowl.
They lose CC as bomb to both of those players.
They were subbed in. They could of created time. They didn't.

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC. Town Faust in this situation should not be suspecting EFHW, they should be looking at outside factors under the consideration that EFHW could be town. I hate me so much but if you are set on doing this I am strongly more you than Efoo.

Vote: faust

No, man! Of course EFHW didn't play for time. Even if she subbed in, you know she still has access to the scum chat, right? There they would have planned who should claim Bomb. It's not any harder for scum!EFHW to fakeclaim here than it is for town!EFHW to trueclaim.

You did all your VCA and didn't notice that anyone who suspects EFang ends up dead?

1. There is no way in this game that the idea of who to kill at night was based on reads of people. It was, of course, based on who was most likely to be a PR, and in this game... who was least likely to be the bomb. You actually wrote the book on the first part of that (nothing but thanks for it) from the first few skum games I rolled with you.

2. It has less to do with anything anyone else is doing, and more to do with what you are doing. Your actions do not make sense here. For you. Take it as the compliment it is intended as - this is not thought out enough for you.

[Swowl]

I'm pretty sure there's exaclty one scum in each of those pools.

I feel like the only way to assume this is to either assume that there's only 1 Bomb or that scum would claim Bomb.

No offense bro but catch up - yes he has been very vocal about that.

[faust]

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC.

I mean, seriously, you think any scum team wouldn't have thought this through? Didn't you yourself claim that of course scum has planned out their claims?

Why do you now insist on doing the most scummy thing ever?

[Swowl]

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC.

I mean, seriously, you think any scum team wouldn't have thought this through? Didn't you yourself claim that of course scum has planned out their claims?

Why do you now insist on doing the most scummy thing ever?

See that is the thing... why do you man?
If you are town then you know that it is either game over if we exile between the two of you or there is a 50-50 chance from our pov.
Meanwhile, there are other avenues that have the same OR BETTER (if there are two bombs) potential results.

[Swowl]

Like ok, you have modded way more games than me. But I have done quite a few... and I don't want to get too far into this.. but like... how the hell do you justify not thinking pasta has slipped skum RB info vs the possibility of 2 bombs and small amount of Town PRs in a roll?

[faust]

I'm pretty sure there's exaclty one scum in each of those pools.

I feel like the only way to assume this is to either assume that there's only 1 Bomb or that scum would claim Bomb.

There's also the angle of: I don't think 2/3 scum would claim VT, and I don't think 2/3 scum in the non-Bomb PRs makes sense given what they claimed.

[faust]

Faust on the other hand has thought this through and knows that skum needs to CC here in order to avoid the IC.

I mean, seriously, you think any scum team wouldn't have thought this through? Didn't you yourself claim that of course scum has planned out their claims?

Why do you now insist on doing the most scummy thing ever?

See that is the thing... why do you man?
If you are town then you know that it is either game over if we exile between the two of you or there is a 50-50 chance from our pov.
Meanwhile, there are other avenues that have the same OR BETTER (if there are two bombs) potential results.

I don't understand anything of what you are saying. I am 95% sure that EFHW is scum. I know that you cannot be, and I am not asking you to be. Just because I am now voting for EFHW does not mean that everyone has to be voting among EFHW/me. If oyu think we have better avenues than this, then why are you voting for me? You surely cannot be 95% sure that I am scum.

[faust]

Like ok, you have modded way more games than me. But I have done quite a few... and I don't want to get too far into this.. but like... how the hell do you justify not thinking pasta has slipped skum RB info vs the possibility of 2 bombs and small amount of Town PRs in a roll?

I think you have to rephrase this question because I don't understand it.

[faust]

I mean, you have literally made the same argument for Cuzz (one that only works if we know oyu are town), and now you think I'm crazy?

[Swowl]

I'm pretty sure there's exaclty one scum in each of those pools.

I feel like the only way to assume this is to either assume that there's only 1 Bomb or that scum would claim Bomb.

There's also the angle of: I don't think 2/3 scum would claim VT, and I don't think 2/3 scum in the non-Bomb PRs makes sense given what they claimed.

100% 2/3 skum did not claim VT - but whatever I get your point. Except for the fact that like... you don't think cuzz is skum here? Reallyyyy?
And yes the PR claims are annoying. But let's say there is 1 bomb... and just for giggles let's say we can't sort it out between you and EFANG today.

That means that there are 2 other skum still yeah? You can't come up with  2 skum fake claims..... BECAUSE ONE OF THEM WASN'T A FAKE CLAIM ITS FREEKING CUZZ

[faust]

100% 2/3 skum did not claim VT - but whatever I get your point. Except for the fact that like... you don't think cuzz is skum here? Reallyyyy?

Cuzz is a good alternative

[Swowl]

Like ok, you have modded way more games than me. But I have done quite a few... and I don't want to get too far into this.. but like... how the hell do you justify not thinking pasta has slipped skum RB info vs the possibility of 2 bombs and small amount of Town PRs in a roll?

I think you have to rephrase this question because I don't understand it.

OK sorry mb.

In a game like this we would put a modifier on it yes? like - roll x amount of bombs first and then based off of that there would be an a predetermined amount of prs to role for each side. I am just saying... if there is only 1 bomb... then there is likely more town PRs... meaning the likelihood that the claimed PRs are town is lower, meaning someone would get trapped based on the first two "potentially town PR claimes".... meaning the likelihood that Cuzz is skum is higher.... or there is only 1 bomb... in which case the likelihood of town PRs is lower... meaning the claimed prs are probably town... meaning cuzz is likely skum because it is a safer claim.