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Author Topic: Gaining and revealing a Loot  (Read 355 times)

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infangthief

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Gaining and revealing a Loot
« on: June 30, 2024, 05:00:25 am »
0

I don't have the Plunder rulebook, but the Loot page on the Wiki says:
Quote
When you gain a Loot, reveal it to all players. Then put it into your discard pile as usual.

Is this "when you gain" timed the same as other "when gain" effects?
I assume not, because it is described as happening before putting it into your discard pile. Also in this comment DXV says that your chance to react to the gain is after the Loot hits your discard pile.

Is this correct? Would it be better for the Loot rules to describe the revealing without using the words "when you gain"?
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Donald X.

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2024, 02:35:59 pm »
0

I don't have the Plunder rulebook, but the Loot page on the Wiki says:
Quote
When you gain a Loot, reveal it to all players. Then put it into your discard pile as usual.

Is this "when you gain" timed the same as other "when gain" effects?
I assume not, because it is described as happening before putting it into your discard pile. Also in this comment DXV says that your chance to react to the gain is after the Loot hits your discard pile.

Is this correct? Would it be better for the Loot rules to describe the revealing without using the words "when you gain"?
When-gain abilities on cards happen right after you gain a card. You can't gain a loot right after you gain it; you'd never get it.

I don't know that there's merit to making the rulebook harder to read though.
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faust

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2024, 04:53:39 pm »
+1

You can't gain a loot right after you gain it; you'd never get it.
I don't understand what this is trying to say, or how it is an answer to infangthief's question.
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infangthief

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2024, 01:53:26 am »
+1

Maybe I can make my question clearer with an example:

Suppose I have a Sack of Loot and a Sheepdog in my hand and an empty drawpile. Can I do the following?
  • Play Sack of Loot.
  • Gain a Loot, triggering two "when you gain" effects: Rulebook's "When you gain a Loot ..." and Sheepdog's "When you gain a card ...".
  • Choose to resolve Sheepdog's effect first.
  • Play Sheepdog from my hand, triggering a shuffle and drawing 2 cards.
  • Attempt to resolve the Rulebook's effect, but I can't because the Loot I gained is now somewhere in my shuffled deck.
Result, I have gained a Loot without revealing it to all players.
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Ingix

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2024, 03:02:39 am »
+5

The rulebook is not trying to define a "when-gain" ability, it is trying to explain, in understandable wording, that what Loot you gain is public knowledge, including the cases where the actual movement of the card would make it not go to a public zone.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2024, 04:38:15 am »
0

If this is an on-gain effect, it is timed before you put it into your discard pile, so either
1. It is triggered first, and has priority over other on-gain effects. (more likely)
2. It suspends you putting the loot into your discard pile until after you reveal it, allowing you to react with other when-gained effects (less likely, and causes accountability problems with Doubloons, also what happens with reacting after putting the card in your discard pile?)

Revealing the Loot before putting it into your discard pile doesn't seem like a problem, if other when-gain effects only can trigger after the Loot hits your discard pile.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Gaining and revealing a Loot
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2024, 10:22:06 am »
+4

The rulebook is not trying to define a "when-gain" ability, it is trying to explain, in understandable wording, that what Loot you gain is public knowledge, including the cases where the actual movement of the card would make it not go to a public zone.

Yes, I think the "Then put it into your discard pile as usual" makes this 100% clear. "When-gain" events happen after the card is in your discard pile, the rulebook is very clear that revealing the Loot to everyone happens before putting it in your discard pile. I can see why you might wish the rulebook didn't use the phrase "when you gain", but I don't think it's a problem here. As far as I know, "when" in never used in the rulebook to define some sort of trigger the same way the word is used on card instructions. Card instructions and the rulebook are not written in the same way.

Without looking it up, I'd guess that at some point, the rulebook mentions "when you play a card, move it to the in-play area" or something very similar to that. Obviously this isn't a "when you play a card" type trigger that only happens after you play the card.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 10:23:37 am by GendoIkari »
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