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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token  (Read 2796 times)

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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2024, 12:04:30 pm »
+1




Quote
Charity
5$ Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a card costing up to $6. Each other player gains a copy of it. +1% per $2 it costs
(round up).

This card is too powerful and centralizing, and supports dull strategies of buying Charity every time you hit $5 and playing it to gain Gold (then eventually emptying Charity / Duchy as well if needed). It seems similar to Rebuild in that way, but more powerful and it actively makes it harder to build engines by handing out non-drawing cards. The issue is even worse in games with 3 or 4 players.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2024, 04:45:36 pm »
+1

Convinced by the above, but might be fixable by making it weaker so that the other player can go green in response? But yeah 3 VP per play is not beatable

LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2024, 05:20:26 pm »
+3

Not sure if this counts (since the actual VP gaining is on the heirloom), but it's what I came up with.
This may be the first Gathering card I've made.
Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be too strong for $4. I know it's going to be very strong with Action-Victory cards.

Quote
Architect
$4 - Action - Gathering
+1 Action.
Reveal the top two cards of your deck. For each Victory card revealed +$1 and add a VP to the Architect pile. You may discard one or both revealed cards. +1 Card.
Heirloom: Plan Sketch.
Quote
Plan Sketch
$3 - Treasure - Reaction - Heirloom
+$1.
-
When you reveal this (using the word 'reveal'), you may trash an Architect or a Victory card from your hand to take the VP from the Architect pile.

card image link.
heirloom image link.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 05:35:26 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2024, 03:33:10 pm »
+4

Updated entry (v0.3):


Quote
Marathon
$3 Action - Duration

+1 Action
Gain a card costing up to $2.
The next time there are at least five Marathons in play, +$1 and +2VP.

FAQ: "The next time there are at least five Marathons in play" may trigger immediately if there are already at least four other Marathons in play.

Previous versions:
« Last Edit: June 04, 2024, 04:14:33 am by infangthief »
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StrangerSon712

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2024, 08:10:18 pm »
0

Interesting, the FAQ is inconsistent with the Search/Innovation rules.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2024, 05:18:19 am »
+2



Quote
Marathon
$2 Action - Duration

+1 Action
+1 Buy
If this is the first Marathon you have played this turn: the next time there are five Marathons in play, +1VP.

FAQ: "The next time there are five Marathons in play" may trigger immediately, and includes cases where there are more than five Marathons in play (if multiple players play a Marathon in the same turn).

This is not playable, though. The card is just too weak on play. This is either only going to be viable in massive slogs or never. Unless I'm missing something? Looks like at most 1VP/1buy/1Action on play to me.

(And of course sometimes you buy it for the +buy because sometimes you buy a ruin market if it's available)

silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2024, 07:40:28 am »
+5

The OP conveniently did not specify who gets the VP tokens!

emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2024, 01:42:21 am »
+3

My Submission:




Quote
Carnival of Time • $5 • Action - Night
+1 Action
Reveal the top 5 cards of
your deck. If you revealed at
least 5 card types (Action,
Attack, etc.), +1VP. Put one
of the revealed cards into
your hand. Discard the rest.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2024, 08:14:30 am »
+1

This is not playable, though. The card is just too weak on play. This is either only going to be viable in massive slogs or never. Unless I'm missing something? Looks like at most 1VP/1buy/1Action on play to me.

Probably you are not missing anything. So long as you noted that the card stays in play for a long time; the idea is that it does not clog your deck as much as a Victory card, Distant Lands style. But yes I think you're right that it is much too weak.

I've updated my entry to a slightly stronger version.
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2024, 10:22:22 am »
0

Interesting, the FAQ is inconsistent with the Search/Innovation rules.

Search (and many Plunder durations) are of the form "The next time <x happens>". Whereas Marathon is "The next time <the game is in state x>". So I don't think it is inconsistent to say that Search needs to wait until some future occurrence of x, while Marathon could trigger immediately if the game is already in state x.

Consider if Search was different and said "the next time there is an empty supply pile". Then the natural reading of it would mean it could trigger immediately.

Taking a look at official duration cards I don't think there are any of the form "The next time <the game is in state x>". I'm not aware (or I've forgotten!) if there is a problem with such cards; I wonder if Donald has shared thoughts on it somewhere.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2024, 01:15:55 pm »
0

My Submission:




Quote
Carnival of Time • $5 • Action - Night
+1 Action
Reveal the top 5 cards of
your deck. If you revealed at
least 5 card types (Action,
Attack, etc.), +1VP. Put one
of the revealed cards into
your hand. Discard the rest.

I love this! An idea, +1 action in night phase is awkward. So how about getting rid of that and instead saying “you may play an action card from your hand”
Most action cards will be useless in your night phase, but I think it adds a fun possibility and makes it a little more elegant (in my opinion) by removing the +Action.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2024, 02:49:22 pm »
+1

I totally disagree. During the Action phase, playing an Action card is weaker than +1 Action, you would have to put it at the end to prevent the potential mess of nested effects and you needlessly add Night splitter upon a clean design for no obvious reason.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2024, 03:18:35 pm »
0

My Submission:




Quote
Carnival of Time • $5 • Action - Night
+1 Action
Reveal the top 5 cards of
your deck. If you revealed at
least 5 card types (Action,
Attack, etc.), +1VP. Put one
of the revealed cards into
your hand. Discard the rest.

I love this! An idea, +1 action in night phase is awkward. So how about getting rid of that and instead saying “you may play an action card from your hand”
Most action cards will be useless in your night phase, but I think it adds a fun possibility and makes it a little more elegant (in my opinion) by removing the +Action.

The +1 Action makes it non-terminal when you play it as an Action. If you play it as a Night, it is still effectively non-terminal, in that you can play a Night card you draw (or otherwise have in hand). You don't need the +1 Action to do that, and you can't play an Action anyway. The fact that the drawing sifts increases the chances you find a Night card amongst Actions/Treasures.

EDIT: What segura said.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 03:20:36 pm by emtzalex »
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2024, 03:33:56 pm »
+1

Updated entry:


Quote
Marathon
$2 Action - Duration

+1 Action
Gain a card costing up to $2.
The next time there are at least five Marathons in play, +2VP.

This seems to snowball too fast in decks that over-draw themselves. In games where "play lots of Marathons" is a good strategy (which will be a reasonable number), someone might gain most of them the turn after they buy their first one.

Also, Marathon promotes strategies where the goal is to just play a lot of Marathons each turn indefinitely, which can be tedious and could result in stalemates. My suggestion would be to have it give +Buy instead of gaining and +1 VP (like in the original), but to give some other useful resource (such as coins).

Second edit: Given that the gaining is not optional, Marathon’s current version is a lot weaker once you run out of Marathon and any useful $2s. So a deck would need to be able to handle lots of Coppers or Estates to play it repeatedly for VP, and it will drive the game towards emptying piles. That said, the concerns about snowballing too much remain.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 04:14:50 pm by JW »
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2024, 04:06:51 am »
+2

Thanks JW for your thoughts. The gaining is definitely meant to be a weakener, as well as preventing accumulation of VP without progressing the game.

At $3 (so it can't gain copies of itself) I felt the gaining would make it too weak, but maybe I'll go that way after all, and improve the payload.

I'm quite keen on it being very weak on-play.
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J410

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2024, 04:50:17 am »
+4

Quote
Coin Press - Action
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

Choose one: This turn,
Treasures cost less;
or when you gain a
Treasure this turn, +1 VP.
An engine piece that wants you to add stop cards to your deck, or maybe you wanted Gold anyway. Without kingdom treasures, getting 5 of these in play gets you 6 free Golds and 12 VP, or 6 Copper with 30 VP, your choice. How many Treasures can your deck really handle?

Edit: I now realize this kind of VP-generation was not the intent of this contest. While I could change the card to fit the rules better (gain a card and give VP based on gains), it would make it less elegant so I'll leave it as-is, at the risk of a lower judgement.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2024, 03:30:25 am by J410 »
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2024, 12:55:15 pm »
+1

Updated entry (v0.3):


Quote
Marathon
$3 Action - Duration

+1 Action
Gain a card costing up to $2.
The next time there are at least five Marathons in play, +$1 and +2VP.

FAQ: "The next time there are at least five Marathons in play" may trigger immediately if there are already at least four other Marathons in play.

The $1 isn't helpful if you get it on another player's turn. In two-player games, that makes winning the split a giant economy swing (you play 6 Marathons on your turn and get $6, also triggering your opponent's four Marathons for $4 which is useless to them).

If it just gave $1 on play that would be simpler and would avoid these issues. I also don't think it would make the card too powerful (it makes it a bit better as an opening buy, but if there's an important $2, you'd open that instead of Marathon).
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RovingBear

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2024, 01:09:14 pm »
+1

24 hour warning!
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2024, 06:48:21 am »
+1

The $1 isn't helpful if you get it on another player's turn. In two-player games, that makes winning the split a giant economy swing (you play 6 Marathons on your turn and get $6, also triggering your opponent's four Marathons for $4 which is useless to them).
I don't anticipate there being many boards where playing 5 or more Marathons per turn is a viable strategy. Your deck would have to cope with that many Marathons in addition to all the weak cards being gained by them; as well as drawing your deck each turn, you'd want something like Watchtower, Donate, Highway, or two spammable $2 piles on the board.
When such a deck is possible, winning the Marathon split is obviously very good, but mostly because you get 4VP per turn more than your opponent, rather than the economy boost.

I hope more games would be about one player choosing to add Marathons to their deck even though they don't expect to play 5 per turn. Maybe they intend to gain and play their 5th Marathon just before the game ends. The other player(s) could: (i) compete for Marathons, probably leading to a rush/slog in which the +$1 adds interest, rewarding the finisher each time; (ii) avoid Marathons, effectively forcing the Marathon player to get at least 5 of them; (iii) mostly avoid Marathons, but cheekily gain and play the 5th Marathon to rob the Marathon player of their anticipated $ and flood them with 4 stop cards.
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2024, 12:39:37 pm »
0

Im unable to acess a computer but wrote a text update for my card

Sorry for the hassle
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RovingBear

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2024, 06:21:53 pm »
0

SUBMISSIONS CLOSED! My life is a little busy now but will do my best to get judging in as soon as possible
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RovingBear

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2024, 12:08:01 pm »
+2

Sorry for the delay, am in the middle of judging.
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RovingBear

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2024, 09:24:58 am »
+5

Hey everyone im going to post the winners here now and later on i will post the full judgement. im sorry that im posting this way i have just been sick the past few days, and didnt want to delay the next contest. Sorry!

First place:
Secret Meeting by 4est 


Runners up:
Celebration by silverspawn
Concert Hall by No More Fun



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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2024, 02:06:47 pm »
0

Understandable! Hope you get better soon

Im betting my submission is bottom tier in the judgement, it wasnt very good tbh
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #220: The Neverending VP Token
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2024, 09:56:32 am »
0

Thanks RovingBear for the win, and hope you feel better soon! I'll get the next contest posted momentarily.
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