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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time  (Read 2471 times)

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emtzalex

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Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« on: January 15, 2024, 12:02:37 am »
+4

I really liked how one of my previous contests turned out, transporting one mechanic (that doesn't require any extra components) to another. Thus, I have come up with this week's challenge:

Design a "next time" Duration card that would "fit" in an expansion besides Plunder.

The easiest way for a card to fit into another expansion is for it to use a mechanic/component specific to that expansion. It may be possible to make a card fit thematically with a set without using such a mechanic, and they certainly aren't required. But the card should feel like it fits in that set.

You may use multiple cards and/or landscapes, including non-Supply cards. There's no limit to the number (but keep in mind that simplicity is a judging criteria). But, at least one of the cards in your submission needs to be an original "next time" Duration card you designed. Also, please be sure to identify which expansion you are using.

Also, since the card needs to  "fit" in one of the official expansions, it cannot have any set-specific features from a different set (aside from being a "next time" Duration card). That means no Reserve cards that gain Horses, no Allies that give Villagers, etc. It also means no fan mechanics which would require additional rules etc.


My main judging criteria is whether I would be excited to see the design in a Kingdom. Important factors for me are:
  • balance -- is the card useful, but not overpowering (both in general and in a variety of Kingdoms);
  • playability -- the card is fun to play and works in more than one type of deck;
  • simplicity -- this doesn't always mean fewer words; a card with lots of text that, once you understand it, can be easily and intuitively be played is better than one with four lines of text that is hard to understand; and
  • topicality -- the card (or cards) fit the instruction in an interesting way--here, this means both the use of the "next time" mechanic and fitting in the set.

The deadline for submissions will be 21:40 UTC / 4:40 p.m. Eastern/Forum time on Tuesday, January 23, 2024.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 04:48:36 pm by emtzalex »
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Cutepelican126

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2024, 12:52:34 am »
+10



How long do you wanna keep it out?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 12:54:39 am by Cutepelican126 »
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LTaco

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2024, 08:52:06 am »
0



How long do you wanna keep it out?

This loops with Academy; remember you can spend villagers any time.
Also, why limit it to cards costing up to $7? There isn't much that is excluded from this. Just doing it for Prince (and maybe Platinum and Peddler) is silly.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2024, 09:10:36 am »
+2

Also, why limit it to cards costing up to $7? There isn't much that is excluded from this. Just doing it for Prince (and maybe Platinum and Peddler) is silly.

Province?

LTaco

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2024, 09:19:46 am »
+1

Also, why limit it to cards costing up to $7? There isn't much that is excluded from this. Just doing it for Prince (and maybe Platinum and Peddler) is silly.

Province?

Whoops, for some reason I thought the card you gained needed to be a copy of one you have in play.
In this case, probably should say non-Victory card instead.

I also just noticed it does not loop with Academy, because the next time thing triggers only once...
Pretend I didn't say anything
« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 09:22:23 am by LTaco »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2024, 09:32:58 am »
+1

I think that it is basically a University variant. Worse, as you cannot gain a $5 in the opening; better as you can gain non-Actions and Actions that cost more than $5.
Note that the Villagers are not superior to Actions as you could e.g. pay University+Smithy whereas Immigrants+Smithy nets you nothing (or a Poor House).

The latter is really what makes this design shine. It also makes it clear that you need another splitter beyond Immigrants except for cantrip-heavy Kingdoms.
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Zoyarox

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2024, 02:01:52 pm »
+8



Quote
In memoriam
Heirloom: Lucky Coin
$4 Night - Duration
The next time you gain a Treasure, gain a cheaper Spirit from one of the Spirit piles.

Nocturne 🌙
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 02:48:35 am by Zoyarox »
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2024, 04:46:24 pm »
+1

This submission is OUT OF DATE, newer submission in a new post


Quote
Vallary | $5 | Treasure - Duration - Command
+$2

Choose one: play a non-Command card from your Exile mat, leaving it there; or gain a Horse.

The next time you play a non-Supply card, +1 Card

Plays with several of the menagerie concepts: horses, exile, and playing cards during unusual times.
Let's talk about that last one -- it let's you play a non-Command card from your Exile deck. If you choose to play a non-playable card (right now, not a Night, Action, nor Treasure), then nothing happens. But it lets you play Nights and Action Cards in unusual times, and lets you play cards you haven't even gained yet (Camel Train combo, anyone?)

Horses are a non-Supply card, so you can gain one, and play it later to release the Vallary for an additional card. But there's a lot of non-Supply cards in Dominion, so this also could get triggered with Prizes, Loot, Spoils, Spirits, Madmen, Mercenary, Travelers, Bat, Wish, (did I miss any?).

If you have a Horse in Exile, and you play it, well, that is before the "next-time" clause, so your Vallary doesn't trigger. It also adds a Silver+ to Menagerie, which doesn't have one.

The one problem is that this card is very strong when desireable cards get put into Exile, like Camel Train, Stockpile, Displace, and to some extent Bounty Hunter (and it's a soft-counter to Cardinal and Gatekeeper). Right now I'm thinking, fine, there are many strong cards in Dominion. It is also slowed down slightly by the "next-time" duration quality. If you randomly generate a Kingdom, there won't be too many Exiles, and I tried to make it still feel interesting (Horses and non-terminal draw attached to a silver can help many decks).

Open to feedback
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 05:21:18 pm by anordinaryman »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2024, 05:53:15 pm »
+6

^ The design is quite strange to me. Why interact with the Exile mat when it cannot put anything there? The card is of course perfectly playable if no cards do any Exiling, but it's a strange choice. And as you yourself mention, when there are cards that Exile, Vallary is extremely strong. So I don't see any benefit in having that choice. It's either useless or overpowered.
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BryGuy

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2024, 10:25:05 pm »
+1

:)
Quote
Smelting Pot • $4 • Action - Duration
+1 Action
+1 Card

Trash a card from your Hand. If you trashed … an Action, +$2; a card costing up to $1, +1 Buy
The next time you trash a card, gain a Spoils.

This is for Dark Ages.
:)

JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2024, 01:21:36 pm »
+2

Conscripts
- Action - Duration - Attack
+
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card.
The next time anyone plays an Attack card, afterwards +2 Cards.

Notes: It triggers based on any Attack, not just your own (which means that you might discard it during someone else’s cleanup). I think it makes for more interesting gameplay. It helps defend against itself, but the attack isn’t that strong, so it doesn’t seem like that makes it too essential.

If you’re the only one who has a copy, it’s quite weak unless you get more than one, which fits the theme. That can help mitigate first-player advantage, because if you are the only one who opens with Conscripts, it probably will stay in play for a while near the start of the game.

I think it would go well in Dark Ages because that set has so many attacks, but it would probably also fit in mosts set with higher than average attack density.

Edit: Modified the card to clarify that the draw happens before you resolve the attack, per SignError's comment. Then edited to make it happen afterwards so that it’s stronger against “discard down to” attacks.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 10:12:42 pm by JW »
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SignError

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2024, 02:51:21 pm »
+1

Conscripts
- Action - Duration - Attack
+
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card.
The next time any player plays an Attack card, +2 Cards.

It either needs wording like Kiln or wording like Landing Party / Inspiring to know whether the Duration +2 Cards happens before or after the Attack finishes playing.

Also for reference, here’s my entry from the last “next time” contest which is similar:



Quote
Reinforcements - $5
Action - Duration - Attack

+$2

Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

The next time anyone plays an Attack, draw until you have 6 cards in hand afterwards.

I think I like that your card costs $4 so it is easier to spam, and of course there are some other differences.  But maybe check out the feedback I was given over in that contest.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 02:53:19 pm by SignError »
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2024, 08:21:32 pm »
+1

It either needs wording like Kiln or wording like Landing Party / Inspiring to know whether the Duration +2 Cards happens before or after the Attack finishes playing.

Updated! (To "first").

Quote
Also for reference, here’s my entry from the last “next time” contest which is similar:



Quote
Reinforcements - $5
Action - Duration - Attack

+$2

Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

The next time anyone plays an Attack, draw until you have 6 cards in hand afterwards.

I think I like that your card costs $4 so it is easier to spam, and of course there are some other differences.  But maybe check out the feedback I was given over in that contest.

Thanks! I remember now why I had this card in my unposted archives. I created as a possible entry for that contest but once you posted Reinforcements I didn't use it because it was too similar to your submission! 
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2024, 06:03:39 pm »
+2




For Dark Ages.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2024, 06:37:45 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2024, 07:54:33 pm »
+2

Quote
Zookeeper
$5 - Action - Duration
+1 Action.
Gain a Horse.
The next time you play a Way or a card with an animal in its name (Horse, Goat, etc...), choose one: +$2, +2 Cards, +2 Actions, or +2 Buys.
-
When you gain this, gain a Horse.
When you play it's a sort-of-cantrip. Its main benefit is the duration next time effect.

FAQ: This cards' "next time" effect is triggered by Camel Train, Destrier, Fisherman, and Werewolf among others, but not Pooka (that's a fairy, not an animal), Caravan, Livery or Stables (has to do with horses, but no animal in the card name). If the animal in the name is part of another word (like in LabRATory, PiRATe, or Royal Seal) that is unrelated to the animal, it doesn't count. Werewolf and Fisherman only count because the words "wolf" and "fish" are in them (and they're not unrelated to the animals in them). Humans and animal-like monsters do not count otherwise.

*EDIT: Changed the FAQ to make it not count words like Laboratory. Unfortunately, Royal Seal no longer counts, but since Royal Seal was removed in the 2e, I figured it's not worth keeping the pun.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 02:15:53 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2024, 03:25:14 am »
0

I like this but it is obviously fairly Kingdom-sensitive. The baseline (strongest effect, ignoring the flexibility for the sake of simplicity) is always a kind of hyperdelayed DoubleLab whereas with something like Way of the Pig you get a Lab in the same turn and a Lab effect later when you draw the Horse.
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Udzu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2024, 01:21:58 pm »
+2

Werewolf only counts because the word "wolf" is in it.

Do Fisherman and Falconer count because they have "fish" and "falcon"?
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2024, 02:39:54 pm »
+2



So, I think this card is well-behaved in the sense that the standard rules clarify how exactly it works, but tell me if you disagree. I think it works such that

- You never discard it on the turn you play it unless you somehow can return to your Action phase
- You do discard it on the turn that you activate it since "draw at the end of your turn" does not make something an effect you have to remember

(Also, is this one of the stronger BM+X cards ever created? Yes. Is it too strong? I don't think so.)

((Nocturne, obviously.))

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2024, 04:38:16 pm »
+1



Not the first time I've created a card named Jeweler. Also not the first time I've created a card with +1 Card but not +1 Action. Initially, you'll be using this to take out your Copper as sort of a poor man's Junk Dealer, but later on you'll be able to Throne your Golds and Platina and other fun stuff. A good fit for Prosperity, despite it not using Durations.

FAQ: If you have multiple Jewelers in play, they'll only be able to trash the first Treasure you play. If a Jeweler trashes a Treasure, I don't think future Jewelers can play it since it's not where it's expected to be (in play), but correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2024, 05:12:12 pm »
+1

^ This card is auto-buy at 4$ every time, I believe. Every card that trashes without hand-size reduction ...  and this card has no risk and scales amazingly.

I'd remove the +1 card outright. I think it's completely playable without it.

There is the problem that more than one of them don't scale, but that doesn't change that you'll ~always want one.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 05:13:43 pm by silverspawn »
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2024, 05:29:26 pm »
+2

Updated submission


Quote
Vallary | Treasure - Duration | $5
+$2

You may play an Action card from your hand to gain a Horse.

The next time you play a non-Supply card, +1 Card

You can sort of interpret this as a slower +2$ and gain two horses (why gain two horses? Because when you play a horse it gets doubled by the "next time +1 Card" clause), at the cost of having to save an action card in your treasure phase.
This intends to tie in Menagerie themes of Horses, and more generically delayed-draw (Horses, Village Green, Barge), and playing cards at unusual times (action cards in the buy phase).

Thank you faust for pointing out a serious design flaw in the earlier version of this card. I had wanted it to be like rats which is useless if there aren't trashers, but good cards in exile are a lot more rare than trashers, and so it didn't work in the previous design. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2024, 07:21:27 pm »
+1

Quote
Tenant
$4 Action - Duration
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
The next time you trash a card, gain a card from the trash.

Meant for Dark Ages.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2024, 11:45:19 pm »
0

Werewolf only counts because the word "wolf" is in it.

Do Fisherman and Falconer count because they have "fish" and "falcon"?
Yes.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 02:14:19 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2024, 12:10:40 am »
+3



Marksman is a nonterminal trasher that lets you choose between cantrip now, trash later or vice versa (which gives you some Duration draw later). It triggers on having 4 Actions in play, so it will usually sit there a few turns early game, but eventually you can trigger several at once or even get both effects on the same turn (like a cheaper Junk Dealer) if you play in the right order. To track which effect you've done already, I recommend playing the card upside down if you need to trash next time. The trash is mandatory, so be careful when you trigger this--playing a line of Marksmen as cantrips might come back to bite you later. The "during your Action phase" wording is to prevent triggering during Clean-up (any simpler wording ideas are welcome!).

This is for Allies, an expansion that emphasizes choose ones (especially cantrip or *effect*) and recursion--this is a Duration card that might not be a Duration after all.
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Cutepelican126

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #209: Next Time, Last Time
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2024, 01:34:06 am »
0

Opinions on changing my card to make gaining provinces less likely with cost reduction? Should I do the basic "non-victory" limitation or something else?
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