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Author Topic: Errata to extra turns  (Read 4404 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2023, 04:21:22 am »
0

As noted this means that a superfluous Outpost gets discarded during another player's Clean-up. It doesn't know that the extra turn won't happen until we're right there failing to do it, which is after Clean-up.

And this would be the case even if Outpost had nothing to do with giving extra turns, right? The fact that it also changes the draw part of cleanup means that it still has stuff to do after the discard part of cleanup.

That used to be the case (but in practice it never mattered for Outpost). But as far as I know, the latest ruling is that Durations only stay in play if they have something left to do after this turn.
This matters for Cargo Ship with no cards, Garrison with no tokens, Duration + Way of the Seal, and Duration + Way of the Squirrel.

GendoIkari

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2023, 08:30:04 am »
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Yeah I was imprecise with "triggers" vs "resolves". I had been thinking that 2 Outposts both resolved at the same time; setting up 2 extra turns before either one happened.

Perhaps the question would be clearer with current Voyage, which lets you play multiple to take multiple extra turns after this... you play 2 Voyages on your turn. In between turns, what exactly happens? Do you resolve both Voyages to set up your next 2 extra turns? Or do you only resolve 1, taking that turn right away, then resolve the other, taking that turn?

It must be the latter.

I'm pretty sure the original scenario is simply:

1) After this turn, these two trigger:
* Outpost #1: "Take an extra turn if you haven't had more than one turn in a row"
* Outpost #2: "Take an extra turn if you haven't had more than one turn in a row"

2) You resolve the first Outpost: "Take an extra turn if you haven't had more than one turn in a row". So you get an extra turn.

3) When you would resolve that extra turn, Lich cancels it.

4) You resolve the second Outpost: "Take an extra turn if you haven't had more than one turn in a row". So you get an extra turn.

It makes sense this way. But this whole time I was thinking that extra turns were a thing that were created ahead of time and sitting there waiting to either happen or be canceled by Lich. Now it seems like there isn't actually such a thing as an extra turn that's waiting to happen. Only an instruction to take an extra turn that's waiting to happen, and you always start that extra turn the moment you're told to "take an extra turn".
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Jeebus

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2023, 11:06:40 am »
+1

It makes sense this way. But this whole time I was thinking that extra turns were a thing that were created ahead of time and sitting there waiting to either happen or be canceled by Lich. Now it seems like there isn't actually such a thing as an extra turn that's waiting to happen. Only an instruction to take an extra turn that's waiting to happen, and you always start that extra turn the moment you're told to "take an extra turn".

Note that other set-up effects work the same way. For instance, "+1 card at the beginning of next turn" is not a card-draw waiting to happen, but an instruction. You could end up not drawing the card because an opponent played Bridge Troll or because you already drew your deck.

GendoIkari

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2023, 11:10:04 am »
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In all the discussions way back when with original Outpost about when a second/failed Outpost was supposed to be discarded, I don't ever remember it being said that Outpost #2 would get discarded from play on a different turn from Outpost #1. I always thought it was Outpost #2 gets discarded on your Outpost turn instead of on the current turn, because it didn't know yet that it wouldn't do anything (and maybe also because it hasn't made you draw 3 cards instead of 5 yet).

But with this understanding, it seems clear that original Outpost (same as brand new Outpost) would make it so that only the first Outpost gets discarded on the Outpost turn; the second Outpost gets discarded on the turn after that (opponent's turn).
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Donald X.

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2023, 01:02:31 pm »
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As noted this means that a superfluous Outpost gets discarded during another player's Clean-up. It doesn't know that the extra turn won't happen until we're right there failing to do it, which is after Clean-up.

And this would be the case even if Outpost had nothing to do with giving extra turns, right? The fact that it also changes the draw part of cleanup means that it still has stuff to do after the discard part of cleanup.
Yes, the Outpost / Lich business doesn't involve that. Edit: corrected by Jeebus.

As noted this means that a superfluous Voyage... there we go.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 01:03:55 pm by Donald X. »
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SignError

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2023, 10:28:02 am »
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Possession:
The player to your left takes an extra turn after this one (but not a 2nd extra turn in a row), in which you can see all cards they can and make all decisions for them. Any cards or debt they would gain on that turn, you gain instead; any cards of theirs that are trashed are set aside and put in their discard pile at end of turn.

Will Possession get the Duration type to match Outpost and Voyage?  Kind of like how Prince eventually got the Duration type.
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Donald X.

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Re: Errata to extra turns
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2023, 02:02:34 pm »
+1

Possession:
The player to your left takes an extra turn after this one (but not a 2nd extra turn in a row), in which you can see all cards they can and make all decisions for them. Any cards or debt they would gain on that turn, you gain instead; any cards of theirs that are trashed are set aside and put in their discard pile at end of turn.

Will Possession get the Duration type to match Outpost and Voyage?  Kind of like how Prince eventually got the Duration type.
It wouldn't be wrong, but no plans there.
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