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[segura]

Does not looks like green to me. Also, most of the times it yields 2.

[xyz123]

Shroud
Treasure - Victory
$5

$1

Trash a card from your hand
_____________________________________________________
Worth 1VP per differently named Victory card in the trash

[RovingBear]

Split pile- Pyramid- Burial Chamber

Pyramid (on top)
Action - Victory

Cost: 4

Trash 2 cards, + 1 VP

Value: 1 VP

When you gain this you may trash 2 treasures in play.

                                 


Burial Chamber (bottom)
Treasure - Victory

Cost: 7

Worth $1 for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth $8

Worth 1 VP for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth 8 VP

[sumrex]

Potion cost could make quadratic scoring OK. I seriously doubt it though. Winning the split will be fairly random no matter what and 5 vs. 3 leads to a difference of 16VPs instead of 12 like in the case of Provinces.

You are absolutely right, i changed it up quite a bit. Thanks for the feedback!

[Xen3k]

Pleasure of Dionysos
4P
Treasure/ Victory

When you play this from your hand, reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal another Pleasure of Dionysos, then play that card.
+1$ for every Pleasure of Dionysos you have in play.
-----------------------
Worth 2 per 5 Victory cards you have, except Pleasure of Dionysos.

The cost is so you cannot just spam them. And this absolutely encourages to get more than one potion, but how can you then make the cost work? Also you cannot buy other things with potion probably...

Just to confirm how you want this to play, do you want the "+1$ for every Pleasure of Dionysos you have in play" to trigger after both are in play, so each will be worth $2 if you have two in play?

[Ethan]

Split pile- Pyramid- Burial Chamber

Pyramid (on top)
Action - Victory

Cost: 4

Trash 2 cards, + 1 VP

Value: 1 VP

When you gain this you may trash 2 treasures in play.

                                 


Burial Chamber (bottom)
Treasure - Victory

Cost: 7

Worth $1 for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth $8

Worth 1 VP for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth 8 VP

Pyramid sounds better than Temple, kind of, but it's OK. I just love the flavor that Pyramids sit on the top of Chambers so much.

[sumrex]

Pleasure of Dionysos
4P
Treasure/ Victory

When you play this from your hand, reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal another Pleasure of Dionysos, then play that card.
+1$ for every Pleasure of Dionysos you have in play.
-----------------------
Worth 2 per 5 Victory cards you have, except Pleasure of Dionysos.

The cost is so you cannot just spam them. And this absolutely encourages to get more than one potion, but how can you then make the cost work? Also you cannot buy other things with potion probably...

Just to confirm how you want this to play, do you want the "+1$ for every Pleasure of Dionysos you have in play" to trigger after both are in play, so each will be worth $2 if you have two in play?

Yes, that was the intend. Otherwise the on-play would be quote weak, especially for such a cost. Keeper in mind the second copy doesn't search another, so both copies would be only a silver.

[SignError]

Atlas
$4 - Treasure - Victory

Reveal your hand for +$1 per differently named Victory card you have there or in play.
-
Worth 1VP per 2 differently named Treasures you have (round down).

For Contest #178: Another Person’s Treasure, my submission was the only Treasure - Victory card, and man, I don’t have it in me to make another one so soon, so I’m submitting an updated version.  The feedback on that post was to count all Victory cards and not just differently named ones.  That was actually an earlier version I tried.  It wasn’t much different early on or in big money strategies, but in deck-drawing engines, it would scale to crazy levels.  At least the crazy didn't last long, as long as there was +Buy in the kingdom.

One thing I tried to do but didn’t get at first was to make all Atlases be worth the same amount in a given turn, excluding weird edge cases.  Including Victory cards in play does that.  It also allows for synergies with Action - Victory cards that don’t remove themself from play.

This will be better than Harem most of the time, although the times that it is not means that Atlas is not strictly better overall, kind of like how Tiara compares to Royal Seal.  In particular, Atlas requires having many Treasures and Victory cards, which tend to be stop cards.  Planning to navigate that difficulty is how you get the most out of your Atlas.

Edit: typos

[Udzu]

A Treasure-Victory card worth $2/2VP with an orientalist name beginning with H and ending with M?

[emtzalex]

My Submission:

Opera House • $5 • Treasure - Victory From your hand: discard a card, put one onto your deck, trash one, and put one onto your Opera mat. Worth 1VP per differently named card on your Opera mat.

My submission is Opera House. It's an intentionally ineffective thinner, which lets players trash one card and put aside another, but only if they have at least 2 other cards in their hand. From a 5 card hand, that means they aren't doing anything else that turn. The topdecking does allow them to save their best card for the following turn, but the real bonus is the scaling VP value of each copy of Opera. There's also a strong synergy with terminal draw cards, as the thinning can be done after the terminal drawing, if you draw a card dead you can topdeck it, and the extra cards you will enable you to still buy something.

[Xen3k]

24 Hour Warning

Entries

Mansion by JW
Beachside by Augie279
Nitro+ by majiponi
Portrait by NoMoreFun
Gilded Gardens by Builder-Roberts
Park/Fences by faust
River Isle by BryGuy
Palanquin by czzzz
Contribute by 4est
Silk Routes by Ethan
Bounty by AJL828
Spring by silverspawn
Pleasure of Dionysos by sumrex
Creative Destruction by fika monster
(Note: I’ll judge this, but fair warning that I don’t think this will qualify to win as the Victory card type seems unwarranted.)
Shroud by xyz123
Pyramid/Burial Chamber by RovingBear
Atlas by SignError
Hammam by Udzu
Opera House by emtzalex

Please let me know if I missed anything. If you make any adjustments to your current entry, please make a new post stating as much. Thank you.

[arowdok]

My entry this week is a very simple version of double harem cost a particular cost

Seraglio
$7@7
Treasure - Victory
$4
-
4%

Not too much to mention here but should be nice for players who get an early $7 or more but don't want a province slowing their deck down too much. Also should be great late game when a player hits $7 vs $8 and the can get this vs a duchy. The trade off is if they get another turn they have to deal with the debt which might stop them from getting $8or even back to $7 which sucks. The cost is quite high but I find that anything that increases deck strength and grants VP need to be limited or costed quite highly as it goes against core tenant of the game.
I was going to go with $6@6 but compared to Harem and many other gold like treasures it seems like it was too much value. To me it seem like only taking only 1 slot in a deck but granting the equivalent of two real cards (mega gold & mega duchy) is strong and it only takes 1 buy.

[Snorka]

The VPs should make it worth it to buy in the late game when the effect is worthwhile. Might be too strong.

[segura]

The VPs should make it worth it to buy in the late game when the effect is worthwhile. Might be too strong.

I really like this. It feels like Harem, but like an actually interesting version of it. I also don’t think that it is too strong.

[Xen3k]

Closed

Final List of Entries

Mansion by JW
Beachside by Augie279
Nitro+ by majiponi
Portrait by NoMoreFun
Gilded Gardens by Builder-Roberts
Park/Fences by faust
River Isle by BryGuy
Palanquin by czzzz
Contribute by 4est
Silk Routes by Ethan
Bounty by AJL828
Spring by silverspawn
Pleasure of Dionysos by sumrex
Creative Destruction by fika monster
(Note: I’ll judge this, but fair warning that I don’t think this will qualify to win as the Victory card type seems unwarranted.)
Shroud by xyz123
Pyramid/Burial Chamber by RovingBear
Atlas by SignError
Hammam by Udzu
Opera House by emtzalex
Seraglio by arowdok
Caves by Snorka

That totals 21 entries. I am going to try and work on judging these today, but my weekend is a bit packed, so if I cannot get the results out today,  I am unsure if I will get them out by the end of it. Thank you for participating and your patience for the results.

[Xen3k]

I am over half way through the judging. Sorry about the delay. Will try to complete it by the end of tomorrow.

[Xen3k]

WDC #181: Building a Better Harem
Thank you for your patience while I judged the entries! I’ll waste no more time and move right along to the entries.
Results

Mansion by JW Mansion - $7 Treasure - Victory $2 +1 Buy --- Worth 2VP for each set you have of Gold-Duchy-Mansion.

Judgement Mansion looks to be a $5 Silver with a +Buy that enhances Duchies. As you mentioned, it is similar to Duke, but does not water down the deck like all other green cards. This is a solid and intuitive design. Similar to the Palace Landmark it rewards developing your money base and keeping track of what is in your deck. I think the VP reward justifies the price tag because of the compounding effect of having more sets of Gold-Duchy-Mansion. As long as you can at least get three sets before the end of the game each one is a Province. Finalist

Beachside by Augie279 Beachside - $5 Treasure - Victory $2 +1 Buy You may Exile this for +1 Card --- Worth 1VP if in Exile.

Judgement A solid Silver with +Buy for $5. The bonus feature of optionally Exiling itself to be worth 1VP is interesting and simple. I imagine the extra VP will mainly be something to do if opportunity presents itself near the end of the game. This is a good solution to the treasure/victory issue of having a single card be too good and have to be exorbitantly priced. I can see this in an official release. A good, basic design.

Nitro+ by majiponi Nitro+ - cost $7 Treasure - Loot - Victory Choose one: +$3, +1 Buy; or Exile this. --- If this is in Exile, worth 3VP when scoring.

Judgement The second of three entries that want to be in Exile to be worth VP. This is a Loot, so the price is perfunctory and the play value is close to standard. This really reminds me of my submission from the last contest, but with a different spin on it. I think the +Buy is definitely the weakest of the play options, and cutting it or adding it to the +$3 option wouldn’t really have much effect on the balance. Like Beachside, Exiling it for point is probably something to do when convenient, though being worth 3VP does make it far more appealing to get it in Exile before the game ends. In regards to the name, I wanna see the face of the pirate that gets the Nitro when he tries to use it for something. Great Loot, would be happy to play with it.

Portrait by NoMoreFun Portrait - $5 Treasure - Victory $2 +1 Villager --- Worth 2VP if you have 4 or more Villagers.

Judgement A $5 Silver that makes Villagers. This is quite similar to Patron in all ways except it can be worth VP if you are willing to accumulate enough Villagers and not use them. This seems to be a perfectly reasonable design. If there are other sources to get Villagers I can see if far easier to reach the 4 Villager requirement, but the VP is still contingent on not using them, so this is fine and not unbalanced. Great design!

Gilded Gardens by Builder-Roberts Gilded Gardens - $4 Treasure - Victory +$1 for each Victory card you have in play. --- Worth 1VP per 2 Victory cards you have with two or more types (round down).

Judgement Gilded Gardens is the first entry that has a scaling treasure value and scaling VP value. The +$ is based on the number of Victory cards you have in play. There are a few other cards that could increase the value, but the primary way to increase it would be to have more Gilded Gardens. The VP value also scales off of Gilded Gardens and a few other cards that could be in the Kingdom. This makes Gilded Gardens pretty centralizing. As soon as someone grabs a Gilded Gardens, other players have the choice to go Gilded Gardens as well to prevent them from taking off or try and race them with another strategy. The big issue with treasure/victory cards is that they have the potential to just reinforce themselves naturally. Gilded Gardens seems to do this more so, even with the limitations in place. Either the top or bottom part could be solid enough to exist alone, but both together makes it too easy to just constantly buy more of them until they produce Province money. Good ideas, but better on separate cards in my opinion.

Park/Fences by faust Park - $3 Treasure - Victory - Gathering $1 +1 Buy Add 1 VP to the Park/Fences supply pile. --- Worth 1VP per 3 VP on the Park/Fences pile (round down). Fences - $4 Action - Gathering Trash this. If you did, take up to 4 VP from the Park/Fences supply pile.

Judgement Park is a great Copper with a +Buy that slowly builds up a VP value. This VP value is for all copies of Park so it benefits everyone that buys one. The big reason not to just constantly buy more Parks is the second card in this split pile. Fences are a one shot Action that steals VP value off of Park. Fences also grants a bigger payout than Park, so even for the players that invested their buy and time on building up the VP value with Park may want to dig down for a Fences or two before the game ends. This is a great design that creates a push your luck mini game that is not too centralizing. I imagine if Swap of a similar card that could gain Fences to hand will have a big impact on how players approach this. Also, great flavor. I don’t usually like split piles, but this is an excellent design that makes me interested in trying it out. Finalist

River Isle by BryGuy River Isle - $5 Treasure - Duration - Victory Now and at the start of your next turn +1 Buy and +$1 --- 2VP

Judgement A $5 Astrolabe+ worth 2VP. This is a good source of buys if you need them and likely would be a better purchase than a Duchy in most situations. I think the price is reasonable if a tad underpriced. Not too much to go over, I can see this showing up in a future expansion. Good work.

Palanquin by czzzz Palanquin - $5 Treasure - Victory $2 You may discard or trash a card from your hand for +1 Buy. --- Worth 2VP if you have more Action cards than Treasures.

Judgement A Silver for $5 that has a really cool VP requirement. Palanquin can be worth 2VP if you have more action cards than treasures. To help this along it also has on optional discard or trash effect that give +1 Buy. That this is an optional additional effect to a Silver seems really strong. I like the ability to trash cards to meet the VP requirements, but the effect may be too flexible. Without testing I can’t say for certain, but my gut is telling me that, similar to Junk Dealer and Hideout, you could make it an optional trash only (no discard option), or a required trash or discard (I like this less), and it would still be really good. That is the only thing that adversely effected my view on this card, and even that may just be down to taste. Good flavor to the name as well. Overall I really like the VP goal for the card and how it helps with that goal. Finalist

Contribute by 4est Contribute - $4 Treasure - Victory $2 Put this in the discard pile of the player to your left. If you did, +1 Buy and +$3. --- 2VP

Judgement I like the name. This is a great take on a one shot cheap Gold with a drawback. This drawback is pretty hefty later in the game, but if people are buying Contribute early game, it will be for the money acceleration. I know in the group I play in there is one person that will never buy this (until late game) and never pass it to their left unless they can get a Province. Cards that depend on players playing a certain way to make the mechanic of that card “work” is always a potential problem, but that is not the fault of this cards design, just the only negative thing that came to mind when evaluating this. Solid “interact with others” mechanic that makes players keep track of the state of the game and treat it differently based on that evaluation. Great design! Finalist

Silk Routes by Ethan Silk Routes - $5 Treasure - Victory This turn, Victory cards costing up to $6 with only 1 type are also Treasures worth $1. --- Worth 1VP for every 4 Victory cards you have (round down).

Judgement Silk Roads for $5 that allows you to play single type Victory cards costing $6 or less for $1. Ok, so this is interesting. This price limit does seem necessary to prevent gaining a Province off a Treasure gainer. The obvious go to would be buying Duchies, making this behave similar to Duke, but it benefits VP-wise from all VP cards. I think the best thing this does is make your starting Estates act as Coppers, so if trashing is not easily obtained this can help with that. After that, picking up other cheap VP cards could be appealing if you have enough Silk Routes that getting one into play is reliable enough. I think the price is fine when compared to Silk Roads, but Silk Roads was never the best alt VP card in my experience, so the $5 price tag may not really be needed. Interesting take on Silk Roads. I actually prefer this over the original. Good work.

Bounty by AJL828 Bounty - $5 Treasure - Victory Gain an Action card to your hand costing up to $1 per different card type you have in play. You may play an Action from your hand. --- Worth 1VP per 3 different card types you have (round down).

Judgement Bounty is a different take on a scaling treasure/victory card. The factor it scales off is different card types. The VP scaling looks reasonable, averaging 2VP unless the Kingdom is particularly wild. The treasure part is actually an Action card gain to hand effect that then allows you to play an Action from hand. This is a really cool effect that requires work, but can grab $5 and $6 cost actions if you put in the effort. I think the power level will greatly depend on the rest of the Kingdom, which is perfectly reasonable. I also really like cards that play Actions during the Buy phase as that can do some really fun things. Great entry! Finalist

Spring by silverspawn Spring - $5 Treasure - Victory Remove a Coin token from the Spring pile (it starts with 12), then +$1 per 3 Coin tokens still there (round down). --- 2VP

Judgement This is an interesting way to balance the innate problems of a Treasure/Victory card. The value of the treasure portion depletes, but starts very powerful, so it is very appealing earlier in the game. I know the wording is awkward as the setup would normally be a third row, but the resulting effect is really great that it is pretty easy to overlook. This may be something that could be solved with a mat with the setup instructions on the mat, but that would add a different kind of complexity. Great design and concept!

Pleasure of Dionysos by sumrex Pleasure of Dionysos - 4P Treasure - Victory When you play this from your hand, reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal another Pleasure of Dionysos, then play that card. +1$ for every Pleasure of Dionysos you have in play. --- Worth 2 per 5 Victory cards you have, except Pleasure of Dionysos.

Judgement The only Potion entry. The victory portion is a faster scaling Silk Roads that does not count itself. With a Potion in the cost, most gainers would not be able to get more of these, but it being a treasure as well could pose a way to circumvent the Potion cost. The Treasure portion is also a scaling value,  but it acts in an unusual manner. Each Pleasure of Dionysos played from hand can fetch and play another and then is worth however many are in play. So with one in your deck, it is a Copper. With two, a single play is essentially worth $4 as it fetches a second into play and each are worth $2. This is a pretty strong card to have two of, and a third will just help ensure a play will pull another for the $4. I think if it was just a Silver that fetches a copy of itself it would still be plenty strong and less likely to balloon in power with more copies. It is very difficult for me to comprehensively judge a Potion card, especially one with this large of a price tag. It may be balanced, but the treasure effect feels a bit clunky. Creative design never the less.

Creative Destruction by fika monster Creative Destruction - $3 Treasure - Victory Trash this and up to 3 differently named cards from your hand. If you did, gain +1 Coffers and +1 VP for each differently named Victory card in the trash.

Judgement The most unusual entry in my opinion, Creative Destruction is not actually worth any VP. It plays as a single use trasher that gains Coffers and VP based on different Victory cards in the trash. I did post previously that I thought the Victory card type is unwarranted, but I am going to withdraw that statement. It cares about different Victory cards in the trash, and it being a Victory card effects that. With that in mind, this is a perfectly well designed card, if a bit unusual. I personally would have liked if it had an optional effect that does trash it, but a Victory card taking up space does make sense. I would be very surprised if this, or something like it, showed up in an official release as a Victory card with no inherent VP value (conditional or otherwise) printed on the card has not been made. On average I see this being worth 2VP per play, which is pretty good, and it does not take up space in your deck afterwards. The price may be a bit low, but the requirement to actually play it for the VP kinda balances it. Really cool design!

Shroud by xyz123 Shroud - $5 Treasure - Victory $1 Trash a card from your hand. --- Worth 1VP per differently named Victory card in the trash

Judgement Shroud feels like a Junk dealer that trades its’ card draw for VP value. The VP value being conditional on different Victory cards in the trash. I can see how this could be worth more than a Duchy, but that would require some work. I like that the trashing is required and the lack of +Buy on it makes it dependent on other sources if you want to have a constant supply of trashing fodder. Would want to play with. Really simple and solid design. Finalist

Pyramid/Burial Chamber by RovingBear Pyramid - $4 Action - Victory Trash 2 cards, + 1 VP --- 1VP --- When you gain this, you may trash 2 treasures in play. Burial Chamber - $7 Treasure - Victory Worth $1 for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth $8. --- Worth 1VP for every 3 treasures in the trash (round down), at most worth 8 VP.

Judgement The only other split pile submitted. First off, I really do like the flavor of it. Unfortunately, starting with  Pyramids,  I really don’t like the two dividing lines on it. I completely understand it is necessary if you want all those effects, but it is aesthetically unpleasant to me. That aside, it needs to specify what cards are being trashed from where on the top part like you did in the bottom part. It seems like a solid trasher and source of VP tokens, assuming you trash from hand on play. Moving onto Burial Chamber, I am glad this is on the bottom of the pile as this will likely be a far more appealing purchase than a Province when it becomes available. Its power will balloon far more quickly the more players in the game. I appreciate the cap at 8 VP and money value, but I still think this will be extremely powerful if it becomes available. I may be off on this assessment as it is the bottom card in a split pile, but even limiting it to be worth 4 VP and money would still be very good. Really creative design, and again I really like the flavor.

Atlas by SignError Atlas - $4 Treasure - Victory Reveal your hand for +$1 per differently named Victory card you have there or in play. --- Worth 1VP per 2 differently named Treasures you have (round down).

Judgement Atlas does scaling VP and money value in a very restrained way. It will always be worth at least a $1, and having Victory cards in hand is usually a detriment to your buy phase, so I really like the way the Treasure half works. The Victory half is also well retrained as it will usually be worth 2 VP. For $4 this can be much stronger than Harem, but the conditional nature of it is appealing as it rewards keeping Green in your deck.  Great design! Finalist

Hammam by Udzu Hammam - $4 Treasure - Victory Choose one: +$2; or +1 Buy and Exile this. --- Worth 2VP if in Exile at the end of the game (otherwise worth 0VP).

Judgement A Silver+ for $4! I like that Gondola has made this not so taboo. This is the last of the “worth VP if Exiled” entries. Like the others the trick will be Exiling it at the right time during the game. This is the cheapest of the entries with this feature and is worth 2 VP, but you forgo the money the turn you Exile it, so that seems reasonable. Later in the game it will likely not be an appealing purchase as it would still have to run through your deck like Distant Lands to be worth VP. Good design.

Opera House by emtzalex Opera House - $5 Treasure - Victory From your hand: discard a card, put one onto your deck, trash one, and put one onto your Opera mat. --- Worth 1VP per differently named card on your Opera mat.

Judgement A treasure that does not gain cards or make money. This is really interesting as I can see situations where you would not want to play an Opera House. It being a treasure with this effect is a great idea as you can still play all the treasure you want before playing it. The VP value requiring you to actively set up a hand with enough card to use all the effects is a brilliant design. I can see this ballooning in value, but it not making money actually avoids the usual issue of Treasure/Victory cards enobling you to get more copies of themselves. Great design! Finalist

Seraglio by arowdok Seraglio - $7(debt)7 Treasure - Victory $4 --- 4VP

Judgement A super Harem! This is a dead simple design, and I do really appreciate that. This being a treasure can allow some gainers to bypass the Debt drawback. I have to be honest that I don’t really play with Debt cards so this is a bit difficult for me to comprehensively evaluate, however to my eyes Seraglio will pay for itself pretty quickly. So whenever you first get $7 I don’t really see the drawback to getting it. As long as it is not too far into the game you may even be able to play the purchased Seraglio to pay off its own Debt. I would have to playtest this to be sure, but I can see this allowing someone to snowball if they get an early $7 far more than just grabbing a Gold. Could just be me. The extremely large price does warrant a very strong effect, and it fits the bill, I am just not sure I would want to play with it. Really good design though.

Caves by Snorka Caves - $5 Treasure - Victory Discard any number of Victory cards from your hand for $2 each. --- 2VP

Judgement This is the Duchy Storeroom mashup I never knew I wanted! I think choosing this over a strong $5 Action or a Duchy when greening is a valid enough choice to make this compelling. There is only 1 VP difference between Duchy and this, but that can be quite significant. That it limits the cards you discard to Victory cards is a smart one that prevents it from being too powerful I don’t have much more to say than great design! I would want to play with it! Finalist

I really appreciate everyone that participated! I had a real hard time choosing the winner. I was not prepared for 21 submissions. All entries, even the ones I may have been more critical of, had great design ideas. Good job everyone! Hope you all had fun!

Runners Up
Mansion by JW
Opera House by emtzalex
Caves by Snorka

Winner
Park/Fences by faust

[Snorka]

Thanks for the contest! It was fun!

[faust]

Thanks for the win! I guess I'll come up with another one of these...