Finally, the judging is complete!
4est: Crate / FurnaceCrate: First, let me point out a rules issue: If you do this and get a Silver from it, in order to return the other cards you have to look at the Loot, so now you know what the top card of the Loot pile is. Are you the only one that knows, or does your opponent see too? Infinite looping is an issue too; with this + Guildmaster/Band of Nomads, you can in principle empty the Silver pile. I'd probably just get rid of the replaying, it's a bit broken in games where you want a bunch of Silver anyways. Is Crate good? Well, not unless you have some way of dealing with the Silver flood. I'm not entirely convinced that this concept can work.
5/10Furnace: This is very solid; a Loot that gives you more control of the Loot pile seems like a good addition. It can also cycle itself, so you don't have to be sad if it's the only Loot you could get. It's not super exciting, but that's about all the negative things I can say about it.
9/10arowdok: Omnibus / Endless HordeOmnibus: I feel like this makes life a little bit too easy. It provides the thinning needed to activate itself, and then it gains Loots so you are more likely to keep having uniques. It also punishes you if you happen to gain two of the same Loot early, that is a swinginess that is less than ideal. I like the idea of rewarding variety, but feel like this isn"t quite there yet.
6/10Endless Horde: I worry that the effect here is either useless or overpoweringly strong. Endless Horde plus Counterfeit for instance could give you $10 and 4 buys, and with any Remodeler you can just keep gaining Provinces. It's too swingy I think.
3/10Augie279: Jeweler / WatchJeweler: Should say "from your hand", I assume. Getting exactly $7 can be a bit lucky-driven, like "do I draw 2 Estates with my Silver", and if you get that sort of collision early it gives a huge advantage. Plus ones you have a Loot, you can mill that to get rid of your Coppers. I like the concept, but feel it may be a bit too swingy.
7/10Watch: This just feels like a variant on Amphora. Amphora is simpler and covers the same design space. The only way Watch is signifcantly different is if you have 2 Watches or Wine Merchants, that's not enough.
4/10BryGuy: Silver Trader / Silver PlateSilver Trader: This has the issue of not gaining stuff to your hand, so it does not provide any coin. Otherwise it's kind of a twist on Silver Mine (which does gain to hand however). If you want Loots though, you probably don't also want to clog your deck with Silvers, and you don't want to sacrifice $4 in hand just to Mine them into a Loot. Overall I feel the Loot gain here is a bit too gimmicky and the rest is done better on Silver Mine.
4/10Silver Plate: I don't get this at all. It would probably be an okay $5 if it were in the supply, but you don't want this if you only get it in the mid-late game. It can be okay, but most of the time you'll just be extremely disappointed.
2/10czzzz: Lapidary / Homing PigeonLapidary: It seems balanced, maybe a little on the weak side? If you don't draw an Action you want to discard, you've just paid $5 for a Moat. But it's fine to a bit situational. I can't complain too much otherwise, except that I find the whole "if it's not your Action phase" bit too gimmicky. I fould find it interesting to instead add "you may discard a Treasure to gain a Lapidary".
8/10Homing Pigeon: I like the idea, but this really needs a way to not be a 1-shot on boards with no trashing. Maybe it it discarded at the start of the next turn? Not sure how to best phrase that though. Otherwise it's decent, no further complaints.
7/10emtzalex: Spelunker / Ornate ChestSpelunker: So hitting a Spelunker with a Spelunker gives you the Village effect plus a Loot? Probably you'd usually want the Village (and Loot if you can get it). The top of your deck is easier to manipulate than what you do with Ironmonger, so there is a bunch of ways to ensure you get what you want. This can potentially gain a lot of Loot, winning a Village split is already important, and it becomes doubly important with Spelunker. That may be a bit too centralising. It's a nice touch that the added Loot, while good, makes future Spelunkers less reliable, but overall I think this is still too strong.
7/10Ornate Chest: I feel like the benefit of Ornate Chest is a downside like 50% of the time. You don't want two stop cards in your starting hand. They're good stop cards, yes, but still in an engine I want to draw them later. I also like like the continuous need to gain more Loot to keep this in your deck is too much.
2/10Ethan: Siege / MapSiege: This is a clever use of the price point for Loots. I'm not sure it is strong enough. It will take you 4 turns to gain a $2, $3, and $4, when gaining all those at once is just an okay effect for a $5 event. Afterwards it gets better, but only after 5 turns. You probably won't be able to buy this in the opening, reasonably not before turn 4, so it will be turn 9 until you get a $5 from this. Yes, eventually it gives a Province and that's neat, but I worry that skipping a $5 for this won't be worth it. And that is not even considering that on a significant number of boards, this will junk you with an Estate along the way. Maybe it should cost $4, but otherwise it's interesting.
7/10Map: I'm wary of cost-reduction on Loots, it seems that this will be too strong on a number of boards. Map is not too egregious, but if you can stack them that's probably game over for the other player.
5/10fika monster: Dividends / Island TreasureDividends: So does this put Platinum into the supply or does it just gain them from a non-supply pile? If it does put Platinum in the supply, what about Colonies? This has an issue similar to NoMoreFuns's Heist discussed below: It speeds up the game too much. At the same time, if this does not enforce Colonies (which I will assume as there is no other rules clarification), then I feel like you might benefit your opponents more by giving them access to +buy. I'm not convinced this is good enough.
5/10Island Treasure: Not sure this is worth it. A Silver that can provide +2$ and +1Buy once is... worse than Spices. The only benefit you get is exiling a single card. That's just not good enough.
3/10grep: Way of the Phoenix / Firebird's Feather:Way of the Phoenix: This seems decent. Not super strong, but probably worth it if you have cheap Actions available. It has been pointed out that you can activate this with a single Fortress. That's so, but terminally gaining a Loot is certainly not the most broken thing Fortress can do, so that's fine. I do feel like the ground that this covers is already addressed in the official card Peril, and I'm not sure this is sufficiently different.
6/10Firebird's Feather: Just... no. This can gain Provinces from the trash. It needs a restriction of some kind; in the current form, it is absolutely broken.
0/10JW: Prospector / TapestryProspector: This is like a 1-card engine. You got nonterminal draw, and with the Loot gaining you get coin and buys. That just seems too monolithic for my taste. Maybe it would be better with a different trigger that can't jut be activated through playing two Prospectors. Also, side note: I assume this is meant to count to cost of all cards in play, but the way it is worded sounds to me like you get to pick and choose which cards to count.
4/10Tapestry: I feel like this is too strong. A reasonable nerf might be to give it a wording more like Flagship, so it doesn't also provide you with a virtual +Action at the start of your next turn.
6/10LibraryAdventurer: Gangplank / Signet RingGangplank: I feel like an Action that just says "Gain a Loot" is probably balanced at $5 (if a bit weak). This is much better. From the Plunder Secret History:
Outtakes:
- +3 Cards. May discard 3-4 cards with different costs to gain a Loot. At one point I was considering multiple new Smithies, and this one was a contender. You don't proc it much though.
Donald X. raised the bar for a card like that much higher, and with good reason I think. Discarding 3 junk cards for a Loot is just too strong.
6/10Signet Ring: This needs a way to deal with Durations for tracking purposes. I think the best comparison for this is Figurehead, which is like always choosing a Moat. Obviously Signet Ring is higher variance, so it's good that in doubt you can just take the Buy. It may be on the strong side, but I like it.
8/10LTaco: Rug Chest / TapestryRug Chest: This has an interesting tension to it, kind of pushing you towards greening early. Is it strong enough? I'm not sure. Sometimes you won't have time to pick this up, maybe? Ultimately I think it's still useful a lot of the time, and of course pretty nice with hybrid VP cards. It's been said that this is better than Hoard, and well, maybe? But yeah, Hoard is weak, and this is different enough.
9/10Tapestry: It's a Gamble Loot! I'd kind of prefer if the flavor was gambling-related, like some sort of dice. This makes quite a strong combo with Sextant, maybe a bit too good. And Loots that play Actions/Treasures already exist in Staff/Orb, so it loses some points in the originality department.
6/10NoMoreFun: Heist / CircletHeist: Simple and it seems to be balanced; in a way it's comparable to Sacred Grove: Usually, you get +3$, +1 Buy and everyone gets a Boon. My only worry is that this will speed up the game too much, with all these Golds flying around.
7/10Circlet: The outtakes have this:
- Action-Treasure with Choose one: +3 Cards or +$3. This might be the only draw.
I think Circlet navigates that issue nicely; it's harder to use as an engine component. I like the gambling aspect and the fact that it interacts with some other Loots (Hammer and Staff specifically).
10/10[/s]
Update: After realizing that Circlet is also an Action: This is just this outtake with a buy:
- Action-Treasure with Choose one: +3 Cards or +$3. This might be the only draw.
I will trust Donald X.'s judgment that this is not desirable.
3/10SignError: Procurement / Guildry SymbolProcurement: Basically delayed Loot that you can pick. I think this ought to cost $6, as it is essentially comparable to buying a Loot. There is no mechanical reason for why this ought to be a Night card instead of a Treasure; then you don't need the extra mechanic of Night cards. Finally, if there are other ways to gain Loot I'm worried that this burns through the Loot pile too quickly, leaving nothing to gain in the future. I don't understand why you need to trash the Loots when you could just put them ion the bottom of the pile or something.
4/10Guildry Symbol: This is uhh completely insane with cost reduction.
2/10Snorka: Usurper / Blood CrownUsurper: I think thematically this ties very nicely into Dominion, so well doen on the front. One thing I am unsure about is... how long does this stay out if it plays a Duration? Probably until both that Duration finished doing stuff and the "next time" got triggered, but you'd have to track somehow if the "next time" trigger resolves before it gets discarded. I think it's safer to limit this to non-Durations. Then it also can't play itself, which is a nerf but I think a good one. Otherwise, I'm not generally a fan of Copper junking but I think it works here. A final issue is that Moat/Lighthouse are weird with this and you'd want to track that you blocked it, but that can probably be done. All in all, some rules issues but I think it's a cool card otherwise.
8/10Blood Crown: I feel like this would be a Loot that you're either quite unhappy about getting (if it's your first Loot) or extremely happy about (if you can connect it with Loot or something better reliably). It feels too swingy for what Loot should do.
3/10sumrex: Manifestation of Will / Rain of FortuneManifestation of Will: I think this might as well be a Treasure. I think the wording is a bit unclear: Can this only trigger once? (I hope so, otherwise three Manifestations of Will can trigger a Loot cascade that results in you gaining the entire Loot pile.) It doesn't specify when you gain the Loot, I assume once the third differently named card is gained? But there is no "when". I suggest borrowing the wording from Cauldron for this. Okay, rules aside, how good is this? Probably alright. It takes some work to activate, And if you fail it's a disappointing card, but I think that's a good place to be at for a $2.
7/10Rain of Fortune: This just isn't well-defined. It has been pointed out that revealing Rain of Fortune to itself does... what? But the problems are also elsewhere: What about Buried Treasure, does it give $0 or $3? (if $0, what about Gondola? If $3, what about Endless Chalice?). It does not work. And even if it did, this can easily produce $9 with 3 Loots, which seems ridiculously powerful.
0/10Udzu: Highfalootin / CoronetHighfalootin: This seems decent. In a way it is similar to Forager, thinning your deck and eventually giving +$ if you invest some. Maybe opening double Highfalootin, then thinning your deck to ultimately Highfalootin a Highfalootin is too good of a strategy. I could imagine that this needs to cost $4.
8/10Coronet: Probably on the strong side for Loots, but still fine probably. It does share a similarity with Hammer, so it's not like completely new territory for Loots.
7/10Will(ow|iam): Billboard / SucculentBillboard: This can be pretty insane. There are reliable ways to gain tons of Silver (Masterpiece, Treasure Hunter, Trader etc.). And after the second Silver this is probably already better than Looting. I think it's better to limit this to maybe one exchange per turn. That's still good but not quite so crazy. A minor issue is that this will not activate Doubloons, which may be fine but it would certainly confuse people.
6/10Succulent: I feel like "save unplayed cards" is already the theme of both Puzzle Box and Amphora, so this isn't really unique in that regard. It's likely fine balance-wise (unless there is Gamble in the kingdom), but it feels done already.
6/10Xen3k: Repurpose / Last WillRepurpose: This I find quite hard to evaluate. There is a loop like trash Estate for Curse + X, trash Loot for $5 Action + Duchy, trash Duchy for $4 Action + Estate which seems pretty useful (you probably want other trashing for the Curses though). The Spoils gain is a bit awkward, I feel like more often than not you don't want that. This really is a card that would require playtesting to see whether it's broken. Definitely interesting though. It a bit lengthy in text, and I'd probably just get rid of the Treasure option to condense it as that's the worst option anyways.
8/10Last Will: A good variant of the "Loot that gives VP" theme. Adding an interesting decision is cool. Solid Loot all around.
10/10xyz123: Goldsmith / BullionGoldsmith: I would update the wording to be in line with official cards: "This turn, when you gain a Gold, you may exchange it for a Loot." This has the added benefit that it doesn't proc Doubloons, which is the most problematic interaction here. It's a neat effect, maybe too obvious? But not so obvious that it was in Plunder. I'm not the biggest fan of the cantrip top, this is probably supposed to make it easy to pair it with a Gold gainer, but the card doesn't stack and so it's just a bit sad as a cantrip. Still, it's pretty good.
7/10Bullion: Victory-Loot is definitely a usable niche. I feel like this one is too strong though, it will frequently be worth as much as Duchy and occasionally as good as Province even. In my mind it would be better to limit the scaling, something like "worth 2 VP if you have at least 5 Loot". Even more interesting as a bit of a catch-up mechanic "worth 3 VP if you have fewer Loot than any other player" or something.
4/10Overall we have more awards to give out than usual!
Best Loot gainer:
Rug Chest by LTaco (runner-up: Repurpose by Xen3k)
Best Loot:
Last Will by Xen3k (runner-up: Furnace by 4est)
And for the overall best entry we have:
Runner-up:
LTaco with Rug Chest & Tapestry
Winner:
Xen3k with Repurpose & Last Will
Author
Topic: Weekly Design Contest #180: Pay the Iron Price (Read 3768 times)