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Author Topic: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *  (Read 6787 times)

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AJD

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2022, 02:59:18 pm »
+2

It would be nice to have a name to refer to traits, events, ways, landmarks, and projects plus any future similar things rather than using an acronym that keeps changing every time something new is introduced. Donald, is there any shorthand you use?

Isn't "landscapes" a pretty common term that everyone uses?

"Landscapes" might include Boons, Hexes, Artifacts, and States, which aren't in the set of things that are used in this way.
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4est

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2022, 03:45:50 pm »
+1

Pious Sirens are kinda funny.
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LastFootnote

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2022, 04:38:28 pm »
+1

It would be nice to have a name to refer to traits, events, ways, landmarks, and projects plus any future similar things rather than using an acronym that keeps changing every time something new is introduced. Donald, is there any shorthand you use?

Isn't "landscapes" a pretty common term that everyone uses?

I've called them "Add-Ons" or "Kingdom Add-Ons" in the past.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2022, 05:14:15 pm »
0

Wow, Swamp Shacks is crazy. I just played a game with Workshop/Village/Stowaway, so playing cards was easy, and I have to say +2 Actions, +7 Cards is pretty decent for a $4 card!
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BryGuy

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2022, 05:30:10 pm »
0

It would be nice to have a name to refer to traits, events, ways, landmarks, and projects plus any future similar things rather than using an acronym that keeps changing every time something new is introduced. Donald, is there any shorthand you use?


I call the non-cards, Horizontals.

Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2022, 05:48:59 pm »
+2

Landscape just means horizontal orientation, i.e. aligned with the horizon line. So, you know, whatever word you like best.

The fact that Boons, Hexes, Artifacts, States are also horizontal isn't interesting to me, but apparently someone cares and needs a way to exclude those, because reasons.
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2022, 07:13:01 pm »
+1

Cue the debate over whether Obelisk should be a Trait.

I wonder if Inherited will be as if you had Inheritance on that card from the beginning of the game? Probably not, because what would you do with split piles?

Plus there's no cost restriction for Traits - if it worked like Inheritance, imagine getting that on, say, Animal Fair - turning a 3/4 opening into a 7/8 opening or a 2/5 opening into a 6/5! - or King's Court
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JW

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2022, 07:21:30 pm »
+1

Can two Traits modify the same pile?
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2022, 07:32:46 pm »
0

Are you able to use two Traits in the same Kingdom? I'm guessing you are, since you didn't specify in your post
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Imrahil3

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2022, 07:51:04 pm »
0

Landscape just means horizontal orientation, i.e. aligned with the horizon line. So, you know, whatever word you like best.

The fact that Boons, Hexes, Artifacts, States are also horizontal isn't interesting to me, but apparently someone cares and needs a way to exclude those, because reasons.

Seconded. Itís not a huge jump to exclude those; they arenít entities on their own, theyíre attached to specific cards. True landscapes affect how the kingdom is played regardless of what else is on the board (with a few exceptions); these extraneous non-cards canít even impact the game without their specific card coming being played.

Allies blur the line a bit, but (A) theyíre still static entities that can alter kingdoms in specific ways and (B) the setup favor means many of them can impact the game without using a Liaison anyways.
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Donald X.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2022, 08:24:07 pm »
+1

"Landscapes" is what I use.
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2022, 09:18:22 pm »
0

Fawning + Siren is hilarious. Buy a Province, trash a Siren
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Holger

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2022, 02:51:05 am »
0

Are you able to use two Traits in the same Kingdom? I'm guessing you are, since you didn't specify in your post

I suppose so, since I had an online game with two Traits yesterday.
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Ingix

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2022, 04:42:08 am »
+1

Isn't "landscapes" a pretty common term that everyone uses?

I usually call them "kingdom landscapes". They are placed open at/near the kingdom and may have an immediate effect. That's unlike Boons/Hexes or Artifacts that only become technically relevant when a card calls for them.
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2022, 08:36:06 am »
0

Donald, Stowaway can play itself if it was gained to your hand, right? I don't think it should lose track of itself.

Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2022, 08:46:11 am »
+1

"Lose track" isn't a rule anymore. Stop moving is. Because it was gained to your hand, its play couldn't cause it to do something further to itself from its an own on gain ability, like say trash itself (which is relevant for a card like Siren), but Stowaway doesn't have such an own on gain ability.

Yet, the Stowaway now in your hand is also a reaction. It can now proceed to react to a gain that occurred, because that reaction doesn't care where the card it's reacting to was gained to (or whether it's itself). It's just like Sheepdog.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 08:56:41 am by Gherald »
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2022, 09:28:49 am »
+1

"Lose track" isn't a rule anymore. Stop moving is. Because it was gained to your hand, its play couldn't cause it to do something further to itself from its an own on gain ability, like say trash itself (which is relevant for a card like Siren), but Stowaway doesn't have such an own on gain ability.

Yet, the Stowaway now in your hand is also a reaction. It can now proceed to react to a gain that occurred, because that reaction doesn't care where the card it's reacting to was gained to (or whether it's itself). It's just like Sheepdog.

Thanks, yes, losing track doesn't matter here.

The rule, whatever you call it, is about losing track. The rule is that an ability can't move a card if it loses track of it. The rule now has a further addition, or "fellow rule" if you want to think if it that way, that the ability can't play that card either, unless the ability is a Throne Room variant. That rule is also about losing track, but not about moving - which is why I think we can think of these as two parts of the lose-track rule. Or, if you want, they are two lose-track rules.

GendoIkari

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2022, 10:06:41 am »
+1

"Lose track" isn't a rule anymore. Stop moving is. Because it was gained to your hand, its play couldn't cause it to do something further to itself from its an own on gain ability, like say trash itself (which is relevant for a card like Siren), but Stowaway doesn't have such an own on gain ability.

Yet, the Stowaway now in your hand is also a reaction. It can now proceed to react to a gain that occurred, because that reaction doesn't care where the card it's reacting to was gained to (or whether it's itself). It's just like Sheepdog.

Thanks, yes, losing track doesn't matter here.

The rule, whatever you call it, is about losing track. The rule is that an ability can't move a card if it loses track of it. The rule now has a further addition, or "fellow rule" if you want to think if it that way, that the ability can't play that card either, unless the ability is a Throne Room variant. That rule is also about losing track, but not about moving - which is why I think we can think of these as two parts of the lose-track rule. Or, if you want, they are two lose-track rules.

Yeah, as I understand it, the reason "lose tracK" was renamed to "stop moving" was because people kept thinking incorrectly that "lose track" matterered for things other than moving, such as being unable to play a card or unable to refer to information about the card. But then the rule for "can't play" was added, so "stop moving" has more than just moving involved.
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J Reggie

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2022, 11:09:22 am »
0

"Landscapes" is what I use.

I guess that makes sense. If I say "what landscapes are in the kingdom?" you're not going to say "Misery"

LastFootnote

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2022, 11:40:47 am »
0

"Landscapes" is what I use.

I guess that makes sense. If I say "what landscapes are in the kingdom?" you're not going to say "Misery"

You might say "Plateau Shepherds", and are Allies landscapes? I could see an argument both ways.
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2022, 11:48:15 am »
0

Allies are a landscape because they affect what other cards in the kingdom, namely the Liasons, are good for. They have their own setup rule though, since they need a Liason to do meaningful work.
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faust

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2022, 11:53:47 am »
+2

Allies are a landscape because they affect what other cards in the kingdom, namely the Liasons, are good for. They have their own setup rule though, since they need a Liason to do meaningful work.
By this reasoning, Boons are also landscapes: They affect what another card in the kingdom, namely Druid, is good for.
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Imrahil3

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2022, 02:07:39 pm »
+2

Allies are a landscape because they affect what other cards in the kingdom, namely the Liasons, are good for. They have their own setup rule though, since they need a Liason to do meaningful work.
By this reasoning, Boons are also landscapes: They affect what another card in the kingdom, namely Druid, is good for.

Druid doesnít count; itís the exception. Boons normally donít work that way.

It is inherent to how Allies are played that specific Allies are chosen for each game, and the rest are NOT chosen. Boons are never  (other than the exception) singled out and are essentially a d12 for modifying Fate cards. Allies are specific things that exist and impact decision-making regardless of the cards referring to them; Boons cannot impact the game outside of being called by a Fate card.
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2022, 08:01:45 pm »
0

Indeed its 3 boons *are* relevant setup landscapes when Druid is on the board.
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #2: Durations & Traits *
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2022, 08:26:28 pm »
+2

Funny thing about Siren I don't think comes up much elsewhere: gaining to the top of your deck is different from putting something on top of your deck at the moment you gain it.  And both are also different from something that first gains a card, then moves it (like Replace).

Topdecking as with Travelling Fair, Bauble, Tracker, Seal, Royal Seal, Insignia ::: Siren is gained to your discard, then optionally topdecked, so per the stop-moving rule it will fail to trash itself on-gain if it was moved.

Gaining to the top of your deck as with Develop, Armory ::: Siren is not moved after gaining, and so its on-gain is able to trash itself.

Gaining then after gain moving as with Replace ::: Siren's on-gain triggers before Replace proceeds to try and move it, so its on-gain trashing will happen.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 09:19:22 pm by Gherald »
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