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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun  (Read 5629 times)

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2022, 11:05:30 pm »
+2

Thanks for the feedback guys. I reworked the Lost City Explorer into Hidden City Explorer with your helpful suggestions.


And the Reworked Hidden Cities:



I think Hidden City Explorer should be much harder to activate. If you open 5/2, you have a very good chance of getting a Hidden City on your first shuffle. Even if you open 4/3, your chances of getting a Hidden City early are not bad. The hidden Cities cost $9, so they should be something you have to put a lot of work into - something like Magic Lamp.

Another thing: Hidden City Explorer has the awkward problem of being conditionally terminal. Donald made Tournament always give +1 Action so that it never hurts you to play it. With this, though, you're given an annoying, impossible-to-guess decision if you've run out of Actions. Also, Tournament is still a Peddler early on even if you don't connect it. This, though, gives you nothing if you don't connect it, making it very swingy.

I think Machu Picchu's attack is still way too brutal. With Warlord, it's still not too hard to play 5 or even 10 action cards. And the fact that there's only one Machu Picchu just leads to a totally lopsided shutdown of the other player. I know you can block the attack with Fountain of Youth but the odds of that being in your hand aren't great.

I suspect that Atlantis's Province gaining makes it too strong. I would make it "Gain a non-Victory card".

Shangri'La sort of has a problem that trashing is best in the beginning, before you can get this. I know I said earlier that I think these need to be harder to get, but if you want these to be gotten more towards the beginning you'll have to nerf the others. If you want these to be big, powerful cards obtained near the end, though, then I suspect Shangri'La will usually be grudgingly picked up last.

I'm giving all these criticisms because I really like this idea, and I want to see it work.
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Augie279

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2022, 02:47:56 am »
+1

If you want these to be big, powerful cards obtained near the end, though, then I suspect Shangri'La will usually be grudgingly picked up last.

Not clear from this wording, but the secret card is trashed on Hidden City gain, meaning you'll normally only be able to get one per game. (Barring either Lurker boards where you can get the secret card out of the trash or Treasurer boards where the secret card is a $2 Treasure)
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2022, 01:20:48 pm »
+2

"Here is my entry

Quote
Indulgence
$3
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of your Buy phase, you may trash this from play for +$2.
This is a low cost source of +1 Buy both in price and deck space since its a cantrip. The trash effect works as stored money which can help players save up to to get a large surge of purchasing power. This card isn't as simple as a strange Event that grants +2 Coffers, as players will not have complete control of when they can spent this. Also also this card can be gained in the late game by workshops which have acquired the needed engine pieces and are looking to transition to the late game payoffs.

The card is based on Mining Village with the minor rewording to match what Donald suggested for tracking purposes. The updated text also is a bit stronger as players will know more at the start of Buy phase then at the start or middle of players action chain and can cash this in only when its best. This card isn't a Village, which maybe be a good thing as most players I have meet lament removing such coveted card from there deck, so players may be more willing actually spend these card for quick high costed purchase of a good $6 or $7 costed card.

"
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2022, 03:28:47 pm »
0

Black Market is the card for people who can’t pick just one favorite Dominion card.  Story gives you that same experience, but with Events.

Edit: Updated this based on feedback. Now it also takes inspiration from Quarry. (Extra fun because the names kind of rhyme!)



Current Version:
Quote
Story - $4
Treasure

$1
Reveal the top 3 Events of the Story deck. You may buy one of the revealed Events. Discard the revealed Events.
-
Setup: Make a Story deck out of unused Events. Its Events cost $2 less.

Previous Version:
Quote
Story - $5
Treasure

$2
Reveal the top 3 Events of the Story deck. You may buy one of the revealed Events. Discard the revealed Events.
-
Setup: Make a Story deck out of unused Events.
I kept thinking about that card(because it is awsome) but i found an itsie bitsie issue with it. Normally treasures do not care about order, so you just slam them. If you have mulitples of these, order becomes quite importend.
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IlstrawberrySeed

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2022, 03:44:52 pm »
+2

Tiara/crown, contraband, and bank are some official treasures that care about order.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2022, 07:15:50 pm »
+3

My Submission:

Quote
Trust Fund • $6 • Event
Put a non-Action Victory card from your hand onto your Res mat.

Quote
Res • Mat
During your turns, copies of cards here are also Actions with: "Once per card on your Res mat, choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1."

One of my favorite cards is Inheritance. I like how it turns what is usually a junk card you want to trash into (potentially) an incredibly strong card, one you get at a discount (if you set a $3 or $4 card aside) and is also worth VP. Its strength tends to be very contingent on the rest of the Kingdom, both on what is available to be set aside and to gain you more estates. But when it works, it can be a huge benefit.

Along those lines, my submission is Trust Fund, another Event that can turn Victory cards into Actions. The biggest difference is that it can turn any Victory card into an Action. It costs $1 less, but you can only trigger it if you have a Victory card in your hand, and you need to buy it multiple times to get the full effect. It also requires you to set aside one of the Victory cards that is going to be turned into an Action (which might be beneficial at first, but later you might have wanted the card).

As for the strength of the Action, with 1 Victory card set aside, it's a multi-Ruins. If you have a spare Action, it can add a Coin or a Buy to your Buy phase. It also lets you get the Victory cards out of your hand (taking +1 Action), which can be a beneficial in some situations (dtx, Haunted Woods). With 2 set aide, they're super-Pawns, and can be played as cantrips or for payload, but can also be played as Necropolis or Moat when the situation requires (which, in certain engines, might be beneficial). If you get 3 onto the mat, the cards become insanely strong, the ultimate engine component, playable as a Lab, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter, disappearing silver, or terminal Gold (among others). On the other hand, buying this 3 times is far from easy/
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2022, 02:37:22 pm »
+1

24 HOUR WARNING
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LTaco

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2022, 04:34:42 pm »
0



I adore Rats! So naturally, I wanted to make an alternative Card to Rats. But how? The card is great already and nothing I could come up with was similar enough to Rats to bear even the slightest resemblance while still being an interesting card. I had already resigned myself to using a different card as a base, when it hit me. Just make whatever other card I come up with center around Rats. And thus, the Rat King was born.
I took City Quarter, another card I enjoy playing with, and modified it to work with Rats, instead of with any generic Action card. Adding a powerful attack that gives out Hexes was required by the theme of the card.
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Snes

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2022, 10:42:47 pm »
0



Quote
Oil Merchant - $5
Action

+Buy
+$4
-
When you discard this from play, if you did not gain an Action card this turn, put your -1 Card token on your deck.

I love Wine Merchant and the potential it opens for huge early-game purchases, balanced out by a downside that makes it go away for a while.  I think this use of the -1 Card token does a fair job of emulating that downside.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2022, 12:28:30 am by Snes »
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venusambassador

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2022, 12:00:18 pm »
+1



sneaking this in with a couple hours left. two of my favorite groups of cards are Lab-like things (encampment, horses, etc) and cards that have a little minigame to get their full value (conspirator, diplomat, etc). so here's Outcast! if you have exactly one of them, it's a really nice discount lab; with several, you're playing a dangerous game. but it's okay- if you lose your Outcasts, at least you have +buy to get them back! (just make sure you don't get too many!)
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2022, 03:31:01 pm »
+1

Contest Closed

I will get to judging later today (in my time zone, where it's early morning at the time of writing)
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2022, 07:56:29 am »
+9

Foreign Market
Always good to make reference to official cards when doing the wording and formatting.

I think this will be a lot of fun in games where it's the only +buy - you get the first use of it and a Coffers, but then other players get the benefit of the +buy when you might really want it. Might be my favourite version of the rotating card that I've seen on this forum in terms of how I imagine games with it. Well done.

Pastor

Great idea, but I think it might just be a bit too hard to make this go crazy. Even getting it to gain a $3 will be work and you can only do so much trashing without something like Trail or Fortress. Without it you'd need a deck drawing engine and another trasher, which you aren't using to its full extent early on, before you can use this to have a megaturn. Would be worth playtesting but I think if you pursue the megaturn strategy with this on boards with the right pieces, you'll lose to a generic engine strategy. So in most games I think it will just be a cantrip trasher. That's not so bad (I often buy Priest without making use of the when trash +$2), but I think the card would be better if it was a little stronger, like if the card was gained to your hand (encouraging even Copper gaining).

Old Uni
I like the effects choices of this card, though the third might be a bit time consuming and the card would be fine without it. It having a potion cost I think lets it down in comparison to University, and it would be fine at $5.

Young Pirate
The kind of card I had in mind when I called this contest. It's got the same mechanic as Pirate, but because it doesn't gain a treasure, it highlights some of Pirate's other interactions. I don't really like the combination of cards and $. $ is great because it makes you think about balancing treasure and non treasure payloads. If I was designing it I would have made it "Now or at the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 buy" for $4. But seems fun.

Lord
I like this better than Nobles and Harem. It makes the midgame more interesting. Peddler Variants are often a "why not" card more than something necessary (the only +actions) or regrettable (a Silver), so finally you have to think early about the opportunity cost of only getting a Peddler for $6 for the VP advantage. Not the most inspiring card but this would have been great in Intrigue 2E to replace Harem.

Night Shift
A nice extra turn card to add to the collection. Maybe a bit too Big Money incentivising.

Commander
This will be mostly used to play other $5 cards (assuming you round down) and $2 cards, not the $3 and $4 cards BOM tends to play. So a great complement. I think a $5 card that gives a debt is a $3 card (I entered it in a competition) so strength-wise it's about right. The more I think about this card, the more I like it.

Yeoman
The closest comparison I can see is Wheelwright, which has the same interactions but stronger. You would at least want the Silver gaining (and maybe all gaining) to be to your hand for a $5 card. If that's what you meant to do, then this is a nice explorer replacement with some extra utility in the late game with spare + actions. But I have to judge what I see.

Gilded City Guardian
Probably about right strength wise and it would be decently fun online. Donald X didn't do non terminal Boon cards for a reason. Also with this card it would be easy in multiplayer to limit the availability of Boons by setting aside a bunch.

I don't really like Hexes or Cursed Village which is clouding my judgement of the heirloom, but it isn't really a good complement to the main card in my view.

Loyal Village
The difference with Underling is you'd buy this even if you weren't all that interested in the Ally. So it's a nice introduction to the mechanic, as well as +action management which I like. Good, simple card.

Redoubt
A great Dark Ages card. Has a pile emptying interaction with Watchtower. But I like this better than Fortress as you can imagine the Draw to X and trashing coming into play in the same games (as trashing benefits small hands). Good card.

Porticulis
Great intention, just a little too strong even at $4. Exploration is a decent buy that often only gives you +1 Coffers and +1 Villager once. Even just the Villager and you have an excellent card that would be bought in a lot of games.

Sepulcher
I imagine the fun of a someone else Knight or Bandit trashing a one of your Golds, triggering this reaction, and gaining the last province to win the game. EDIT: This imagination caused me to pay less attention to the actual card text, which specifies non victory. In fact I imagine a lot of fun interactions with this card. Great design.

Herder
As an aside, if I was allowed to enter I'd do some sort of Crypt or Archive variant, so you hit a nerve for me with this one. This is the kind of card where I'd like to see a top ranked player make an engine when it's the only +Actions card. You probably want it as a pseudo trasher/exiler, but making the most of it is a different matter. An engine enabled by early greening - what a concept! What a delightful card.

Adventurer
Treasure Trove is one of my favourite cards, but this is a bit too strong. Treasure Trove being a Treasure still encourages you to play around a bit with Terminal Draw and other enablers. Can't imagine doing anything but playing BM with this card.

Guild Warehouse
I like your intention here. The strongest aspect of this card is the combination of sifting and +buy. It is an invitation for early greening. But I'm not sure it really stands out as a $5, though I agree with what you're saying about how beginners see Market (It's how I saw it).

Distributor
It will come down to the cards in the pile. Gaining the card after choosing to rotate is a good way to prevent spiteful play. It will suck to miss out on a card (though it moves slowly enough that you can't blame other players).

Poltergeist
Making more accessible versions of powerful cards is a great idea. The best comparison for this card is Scavenger - instead of +$2, you get +1 Card and +1 Action at the start of your next turn, and it's non terminal. I don't think it needs to be gained to hand - it's powerful enough without it and compares too favourably to Ghost Town with it.

Unnamed Way of the Turtle inspired card
The Way of the Turtle and Voyage interaction is a great one (especially with multiple turns) so good on you for trying to recreate a fun interaction in a single card. It's not clear from the wording whether you get the effect of the action on play, or whether it's a compulsory Way of the Turtle. The former is way too powerful - an extra turn being even more powerful than your first one. The latter means basically you get to tee up 1 card for your next turn, and buy whatever your treasures can afford, which isn't all that interesting. Something like a +1 Action, unbounded Royal Galley might be what you're after. Also there's nothing in the rules saying what a "terminal" is.

Story
What you've shown me is that being a Treasure makes Black Market much cleaner. This fits the contest brief nicely - more Black Market, this time with events. I can foresee a few tracking issues, but it would be a fun online card. I have concerns that events can be more influential from a single buy than cards. Hitting Inheritance or Lost Arts can give your deck an immense advantage that would be hard to replicate with a single copy of a card.

Hidden City Explorer
High risk, high reward. The card is a terrible $5 but the hidden cities are outstanding and could turn the tide of the game. I think there's a bit too much luck involved to get a Hidden City, with what your "secret" card is in the opening, and with getting first access to the Hidden City that will win you the game (which might depend more on the kingdom than how the game is played).

Indulgence
Another entry that is a cleaner version of an existing mechanic. Not as high stakes as Mining Village, where making the wrong decision on when to trash that card can end up making your deck not function. This is a lower risk card, especially if you end up with an abundance of +buys, so it's a nice exploration of what Mining Village has to offer that encourages actually using the trashing function more aggressively. A good entry.

Trust Fund
Initially I thought this was way too weak, then I realised that you would want to put a variety of Victory cards on it. There's a clear strategy here - set aside an estate and a province, and pick +1 Card +1 Action, and you can green without hurting your engine. Kind of like Sanctuary. I'd like to see how Duchies and Alt VP come into it. But what you end up with is a very different game of Dominion with a different flow. A very game warping landscape (like Keep) - and I'm not sure whether I'd have more fun in games using it.

Rat King
City Quarter is better than this except for the remote possibility of dishing out a Hex. This can have a much lower cost and avoid hexing. The card this makes me think of is Crossroads - turning "junk" into draw, but with a specific kind of junk. Could be fun to play with at a lower cost.

Oil Merchant
+$3, +1 Buy with a compulsory Borrow - probably too strong for $5 as a BM card. That's without the Action opt out. For much of the game you're buying Actions with this (if you're making an engine) so it's very strong. Probably too strong and will lead to games that are over too quickly.

Outcast
One of the other contests I won used a similar concept (Loner, contest #54). So clearly I like the premise. But this card is too strong. It's way too much of a no brainer to buy at least one, which is at no risk of leaving your deck. The others are nice bonuses, and I don't think it's too hard to get past the point where you're likely to net more than $3 value from playing Outcast and be able to buy it back.


__________________________

This was a very hard contest to judge. Many cards perfectly fit the brief and I can't suggest any improvements. Many would fit very nicely into next editions of the original card's sets. Overall I hope you had fun thinking about your favourite cards.

There can only be one winner, and that is

Commander, by Udzu
Runners up: Herder by faust and Sepulcher by Gubump
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 02:58:22 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2022, 10:49:39 am »
0

Funny, +$2 and +1 Buy was the first version I made. Well, you lose some I guess.

Congrats to Udzu!
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2022, 10:55:10 am »
0

Excellent contest and judging by NoMoreFun! With Redoubt, I knew there was probably some autopile interaction out there somewhere but I couldn't think of any at the time. Haha and of course it's Watchtower, one of the cards that inspired Redoubt, sitting right in front of me. I'll may have to workshop this one a bit to prevent things like that, but appreciate the feedback otherwise. Congrats to Udzu!
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Snes

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2022, 11:02:09 am »
0

Oil Merchant
+$3, +1 Buy with a compulsory Borrow - probably too strong for $5 as a BM card. That's without the Action opt out. For much of the game you're buying Actions with this (if you're making an engine) so it's very strong. Probably too strong and will lead to games that are over too quickly.

I don't think I agree with the assessment that "Woodcutter +1$ +Borrow" is too strong for $5.  Borrow being a "free" event signals to me that adding its effect to an action card is more of a downside than an upside.  Look at Sacred Grove: assuming all Boons have equal value, it's worth the equivalent of a Woodcutter +$2 with a downside five-sixth of the time, and one-sixth of the time it has no downside.

You could be right about the version I posted being too strong.  I hemmed and hawed for a long time about what the criteria should be for dodging the penalty.  My first draft had you get -1 Card if you didn't gain an Action and -$1 if you didn't gain a non-Action, but I worried it was a bit too wordy and hard to parse.  What if you got the token if you didn't gain both an Action and a non-Action that turn?  I think that would help slow things down, and make interesting decisions for the player: do you sacrifice your early turns by rushing for big money or multiple actions, or do you keep your early turns consistent by stuffing your deck with a mix of Actions and Silvers?
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2022, 01:14:16 pm »
+2

So Judge, I am legitimately confused on quite a few points here.

You posted the second runner up as the card Sepulcher by the user MrHiTech which is a mismatch, I see that MrHiTech commented/quote Sepulcher but it was authored originally by Gubump. Or did you mean that MrHiTech's Portcullis.

Based on your feedback which was mostly positive for Gubump's card I would assume they got runner up vs your feedback on MrHiTech's which tend toward the negative.

Also on your feedback for Gubump's card seemed you misunderstood the card, as it clearly says gain a non-Victory card and you mentioned gaining a province out from under a player.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2022, 03:26:11 pm »
+1

Based on your feedback which was mostly positive for Gubump's card I would assume they got runner up vs your feedback on MrHiTech's which tend toward the negative.

Also on your feedback for Gubump's card seemed you misunderstood the card, as it clearly says gain a non-Victory card and you mentioned gaining a province out from under a player.

Indeed, I had "remodel reaction" on my mind and didn't pay close enough attention to the card text. I've edited my comments (but it didn't change the result). We all do our best to judge cards but mistakes happen.

I intentionally tried not to pay attention to who posted which card, so after selecting my runner up I scrolled back through the post to see who posted it. So thanks for helping me assign credit correctly.

I don't think I agree with the assessment that "Woodcutter +1$ +Borrow" is too strong for $5.  Borrow being a "free" event signals to me that adding its effect to an action card is more of a downside than an upside.  Look at Sacred Grove: assuming all Boons have equal value, it's worth the equivalent of a Woodcutter +$2 with a downside five-sixth of the time, and one-sixth of the time it has no downside.

Borrow is a bad buy when you don't really need the $1, so you're right it would largely be a downside if compulsory. But in my judgement the +buy makes it less likely that any of that $4 is wasted.

There's a good idea there. Cauldron and Collection explore the premise of buying Action cards into the late game, and  it's one worth exploring more. Your card does that through giving a penalty for not buying an Action, a sound idea, which I think is muffled by it being way too strong early and not enough of a penalty later. But ultimately that's just my opinion and it's not like I playtested the card or anything like that.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 03:27:43 pm by NoMoreFun »
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IlstrawberrySeed

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2022, 07:44:49 pm »
0

Thanks for the work and congrats Udzu.

I would like to clarify that the WotT is mandatory, which is why it is non-terminal in a non-stacking way- it needs to stack to be powerful, otherwise it’s “look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Set aside an action and play it at the start of your next turn. Then, play any number of treasures, buy a card, and discard the rest.”
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2022, 01:25:53 am »
+1

Thanks for the work and congrats Udzu.

I would like to clarify that the WotT is mandatory, which is why it is non-terminal in a non-stacking way- it needs to stack to be powerful, otherwise it’s “look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Set aside an action and play it at the start of your next turn. Then, play any number of treasures, buy a card, and discard the rest.”

The problem is, the way you've worded your card, when you'd play an Action card during your extra turn, you'd still get the effect as well as setting it aside, since it doesn't say anything to cancel that out. It just says "when you play an Action from your hand, get this additional effect." To achieve the effect you intend, you would need to say something like "when you play an Action card from your hand, set it aside (on this) instead of following its instructions. At the start of the turn after, play the set aside cards."
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 01:28:04 am by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2022, 04:28:05 am »
+4

There can only be one winner, and that is

Commander, by Udzu
Runners up: Herder by faust and Sepulcher by Gubump

Wow! That was unexpected!

I'm afraid real life means I won't have time to judge this time, sorry.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2022, 11:10:44 am »
+6

There can only be one winner, and that is

Commander, by Udzu
Runners up: Herder by faust and Sepulcher by Gubump

Wow! That was unexpected!

I'm afraid real life means I won't have time to judge this time, sorry.

In that case, since we have 2 runners-up, I'd suggest faust judge the next contest, if he has time. I'm going to be on vacation next week.
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IlstrawberrySeed

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2022, 06:22:52 pm »
0


The problem is, the way you've worded your card, when you'd play an Action card during your extra turn, you'd still get the effect as well as setting it aside, since it doesn't say anything to cancel that out. It just says "when you play an Action from your hand, get this additional effect." To achieve the effect you intend, you would need to say something like "when you play an Action card from your hand, set it aside (on this) instead of following its instructions. At the start of the turn after, play the set aside cards."

I thought there was something else I missed.
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2022, 06:44:12 pm »
+2

In that case, since we have 2 runners-up, I'd suggest faust judge the next contest, if he has time. I'm going to be on vacation next week.

I sent faust a PM that they've been nominated to judge the next contest as runner-up to this one.
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