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[gkrieg13]

I think in a vanilla game like we are now, it could've helped town as well.

There is literally not even a hypothetical way in which it could have helped town without scum letting it happen.

Prolonging yesterday's discussions could have helped town.  I agree, it also could have helped scum.  But I think you're completely wrong in saying there was no way it could have helped town.

Consider one case - what if we all posted a scum-to-chum list?  Yes, scum would then have all that info and might make a better night choice.  But then their night choice becomes WIFOM, depending on whether they kill a strong town-read, or someone who's tunneling one of them, or someone who's tunneling a townie to frame them, or something else.  But on the other hand, we would know exactly what LL's scum-to-chum list is today.  We would even be able to compare yesterday's lists to how any of them might change today.

Now I'm not saying that giving those lists would have been a good choice yesterday.  I'm just saying that putting information into public has the ability to help town, even if it may help scum in some way as well.

Are you just being stubborn Awaclus?  Or are you intentionally trying to direct this game in a way that best benefits you and your scum-buddy?

I agree with Awaclus. Knowing everyone's scum-to-chum list is exactly what scum wants to know in a vanilla game. Literally isn't anything they want to know more.

[gkrieg13]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.

I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today

I very much agree with Didds here. It is a little bit strange how math phrased it as well.

[gkrieg13]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.

I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today

So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?

Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.

[gkrieg13]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.

I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today

So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?

I have assumed until this point that scum killed LL.  But looking back, it doesn't actually say that.  We do need mod confirmation.

I think the most likely explanation if LL was mod-killed is that scum missed the kill due to inactivity.  Joth and gk?  Or maybe there wasn't even a recruitment the night before?  Just gk as SM?

Even with my lack of activity, I would never miss a NK as scum in a vanilla game.

[gkrieg13]

Ok caught up. Pretty sure I agree with MiX here.

vote: scola

[MiX]

How about we stop thinking about how Swowl never makes everything clear and start thinking in the correct world...

Mathdude. A readlist? Please? Anything.

As I said, it makes more sense to wait until closer to the deadline.  Can you give me an argument otherwise?

Theory is cool how about you make a scum to chum list so we can look at it after we exile you.

My list alone will probably be pretty useless.  I admit I have very weak reads this game.  On top of that, I know I will have a slightly biased scum-read towards those who target me the most (I always do).

I assume it would be better to do this closer to the deadline, rather than this early in the day.  Let's let gk and joth actually contribute to this day - otherwise their places in the list will be quite meaningless (if they were even put in the list).  But if I am up for exile, I trust someone would post an intent-to-hammer, and give time for me to post such a list, rather than a quick-hammer (which would be very scummy).

Did you read that and ignore it?  Do you just post without reading responses directly to your posts/requests?

I intend to put you to X-1 if you don't give a readslist right now so might as well speed up the process.

[Awaclus]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.

I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today

So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?

Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.

Why would that be a townslip?

[gkrieg13]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.

I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today

So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?

Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.

Why would that be a townslip?

I guess I don't know what night he is referring to when he says that scum no-killed.

[Awaclus]

I guess I don't know what night he is referring to when he says that scum no-killed.

I'm pretty sure that was just a miscommunication issue:

I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?

Kind of, and so is joth. Unless I'm mistaken, you're claiming that scum killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was such an obvious town tell, and joth thinks you're claiming that Swowl killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was against the rules, in which case there would have been no kill by scum.

[Swowl]

LaLight was not ModKilled. Any MoD disciplinary actions would be made public.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?

Kind of, and so is joth. Unless I'm mistaken, you're claiming that scum killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was such an obvious town tell, and joth thinks you're claiming that Swowl killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was against the rules, in which case there would have been no kill by scum.

Oh! Now I see. Thank you!

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.2

scolapasta (2): MiX, gkrieg
Mathdude (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): scolapasta, mathdude, WCD, Joth

With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 4 ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.

[MiX]

MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm…..  I haven’t given Scola much serious consideration recently, although I was voting for him early on at EFHWs behest so I can revisit my thoughts from that day. The thing is, I’m not sure why a baddie would recommend no exile when Math was already accumulating votes unless it was to prevent Math from being exiled, although it was super early in the day. Regardless, I can see how that might be partnery, but still seems like it hinges on Math.

Vote: Math

[Awaclus]

MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.

How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?

[MiX]

MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.

How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?

Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?

[Awaclus]

How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?

Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?
[/quote]

Because if we are guaranteed to exile math tomorrow given we exile scola today regardless of scola's flip, getting to see scola's flip before math's doesn't actually help anything. On the other hand, if math is town against all expectations, it would be extremely useful to learn that today.

[Awaclus]

How that post was supposed to look like:

How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?

Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?

Because if we are guaranteed to exile math tomorrow given we exile scola today regardless of scola's flip, getting to see scola's flip before math's doesn't actually help anything. On the other hand, if math is town against all expectations, it would be extremely useful to learn that today.

[MiX]

Good point. I suppose if I'm confident in my world I should test it instead of trying to win more.

Vote: math, X-2 by the way.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.3

Mathdude (3): Awaclus, WCD, MiX
scolapasta (1): gkrieg

Not Voting (3): scolapasta, mathdude, Joth

With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Night 4 ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.

[mathdude]

Good point. I suppose if I'm confident in my world I should test it instead of trying to win more.

Vote: math, X-2 by the way.

How do you do math? That's X-1. Are you trying to get someone to accidentally hammer, with them thinking they're only putting it to X-1?

... I'm going back now to respond to a couple other posts, then I'll list my scum-to-chum

[mathdude]

Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there.  He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since.  He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread".  He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.

If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me.  And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill.  But I'm neither of those.  So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.

I am pretty sure that rereading almost anyone would point to you. Not sure if it is a great argument.

I haven't gone back to look specifically. But it does kind of feel like you're right here, for this game. I guess my argument holds less water here then.

[mathdude]

Even with my lack of activity, I would never miss a NK as scum in a vanilla game.

That's all fine for you to say. But if you do actually forget about the game for 2 days because you're busy, then you might still miss a NK.

[mathdude]

MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.

How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?

Already hedging tomorrow's vote? That's a scummy thing to do.

So either you're town, and giving scum extra info during the day now (directly contrary to your whole argument at start-of-day) to let them make a more informed choice of night kill... or you are scum, knowing you're possibly setting up for killing 2 towns in a row to win the game.