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[Donald X.]

Nomad Camp is basically a Woodcutter with a penalty; you don't tend to want it to be gained onto your deck. Woodcutter is already not a very good Woodcutter.

Nomads, now there's a sweet Woodcutter. So often there is some cute trick it can do.



Duchess had to be weak, since you could take one for free with a Duchy. It was still too weak. Man, it could at least have only looked at your own top card, without letting your opponents do it too.

Guard Dog has no connection, and is another new Reaction. Okay so. If they play say Witch, you can react to play your Guard Dog. If they play say Militia, don't react, just save Guard Dog for your turn, and then you'll draw 2 extra cards. Of course there are also all the other ways you can get the 4 cards. It's another one that plays into the filtering theme.



I like Cache, except for it being bad. If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't. And I mean. It's bad.

Souk is unrelated, beyond being another when-gain card. It rewards a small hand size, such as you might have after playing some filtering cards. And it gets in another when-gain trigger.

[Augie279]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

[Jimmmmm]

If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't.

Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but why can't you do things like this? I was a little surprised not to see the Wharf/Merchant Ship change.

[Donald X.]

If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't.

Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but why can't you do things like this? I was a little surprised not to see the Wharf/Merchant Ship change.

Well it's a line I've drawn myself; I'm not just making changes that meaningfully functionally change the cards. I'm fixing rules bugs and confusion; this can entail a meaningful change but the change is all about the fix. It's confusing to have two versions of a card; I've lived with that to reduce other confusion. I'm not doing it for card-balancing reasons.

[emtzalex]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Souk-Capitalism is pretty wild as well (especially if you have solid trashing/Exiling).

[Awaclus]

The fact that the blue dog didn't replace Trader makes it considerably more likely that Trader is staying in the set.

[CaptainTheo]

Well I was right about those three cards going (unlike the first preview in terms of Embassy)!

The three new ones all look interesting, especially Souk, which is particularly novel. It reminds me of Poor House in a way. Played from a hand of five cards, it's a perfectly reasonable +$3, 1 Buy, comparing favourably to a card like Galleria from Allies. It would be weaker obviously with big hands, but loves "disappearing money" cards like Festival, and discarding attacks. It would also generally go very well when played with a Throne Room variant. EDIT: And I only belatedly noticed its on-gain effect.

Guard Dog reminds me a bit of Diplomat in that it likes smaller hand sizes and responds to an attack. It's the third "dog" card and they do have a bit in common in that all are blue dogs (ie reactions) that draw two cards and, like Sheep Dog, Guard Dog can be played from hand as a reaction. The dog looks like it might be guarding an army garrison.

Nomads is the first card that I recall that directly provides coins when gained or trashed, so it particularly likes to be gained with a gainer (instead of bought, where the player would normally need a spare buy to make use of the coins), and there seem to be quite a few new gainer cards recently.

[NoMoreFun]

Guard dog is as good as "draw to 6" or better unless you have 0 or 1 in your hand after playing it.

[Dubdubdubdub]

Nomads is the first card that I recall that directly provides coins when gained or trashed, so it particularly likes to be gained with a gainer (instead of bought, where the player would normally need a spare buy to make use of the coins), and there seem to be quite a few new gainer cards recently.

Especially with something like Watchtower in hand: turns Ironworks into "+1 Action, +$4", not bad.

[suet63]

What are the last 3cards to go?

Noble Brigand, Margrave, and..?

[Imrahil3]

Farmland. Please Farmland.

Wait, with the errata to on-gain, Farmland can be cool now. Don’t kill Farmland.

EDIT: WAIT - with Witch’s Hut, the set has a Curser, so Ill-Gotten Gains is going, I bet.

[trivialknot]

The fact that the blue dog didn't replace Trader makes it considerably more likely that Trader is staying in the set.

Also, Souk taking a +buy slot makes me think Margrave is leaving.

[GendoIkari]

Thank you early "spoilers", all 3 of these cards already work with auto-link!

[Chappy7]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Does Way of the Chameleon also apply to negative cards and coins? Or just the positives?

[Meta]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Does Way of the Chameleon also apply to negative cards and coins? Or just the positives?

It doesn't as stated in the Wiki

[mxdata]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Does Way of the Chameleon also apply to negative cards and coins? Or just the positives?

It doesn't as stated in the Wiki

So with Chameleon, it becomes a straight +7 Cards regardless of your starting hand size?

I could've sworn that there'd been discussion of Poor House that came to the conclusion that the +Cards are decreased by Treasures. Was that a ruling that was later reversed, or am I just misremembering things?

[GendoIkari]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Does Way of the Chameleon also apply to negative cards and coins? Or just the positives?

It doesn't as stated in the Wiki

And to be clear in the general sense, there's no rule at all that defines what "-2 cards" would even look like. A lot of people think of it as the same as "discard 2 cards", but that's just one choice of interpretation.

[Elias Z]

I am really excited to try these new cards. But dominion.games is not letting me. If I try to start a game with Base and Hinterlands, with "Extra 2nd Edition" enabled, it says "Failed to select preview card" and doesn't start the game. If I start the game with "Extra 2nd Edition" disabled, it works, but I don't see any of the new cards.

A screenshot can be seen at https://imgur.com/a/6eglK5v

[Elias Z]

Also, if I try to start a game with only Hinterlands (not Base), it tells me "No cards available to fill kingdom".

[Imrahil3]

How nuts is Souk-WotChameleon gonna be? It aside, Souk seems fine, maybe not the best buy when you're drawing your deck, but +7 coins... Man, this feels like a card that you just build your deck around.

Does Way of the Chameleon also apply to negative cards and coins? Or just the positives?

It doesn't as stated in the Wiki

And to be clear in the general sense, there's no rule at all that defines what "-2 cards" would even look like. A lot of people think of it as the same as "discard 2 cards", but that's just one choice of interpretation.

To add to this,

Way of the Chameleon says that any time you’d get +Cards or +$, you get the other. “-“ never once enters the conversation (it says nothing about what happens when you just have $, or -$)so it’s reasonable to assume that you would get -$ as normal. It’s also reasonable to assume you would discard, but you have to extrapolate further to get there, and with Dominion the most literal reading is usually right.

[J Reggie]

Farmland. Please Farmland.

Wait, with the errata to on-gain, Farmland can be cool now. Don’t kill Farmland.

EDIT: WAIT - with Witch’s Hut, the set has a Curser, so Ill-Gotten Gains is going, I bet.

Yeah, I really hope Farmland gets "when you gain this other than with Farmland" rather than "when you gain this after buying it". It would make the card way more interesting.

Also, I wonder how many newer players just don't know about the blue dog thing?

[grrgrrgrr]

Farmland. Please Farmland.

Wait, with the errata to on-gain, Farmland can be cool now. Don’t kill Farmland.

EDIT: WAIT - with Witch’s Hut, the set has a Curser, so Ill-Gotten Gains is going, I bet.

Yeah, I really hope Farmland gets "when you gain this other than with Farmland" rather than "when you gain this after buying it". It would make the card way more interesting.

Also, I wonder how many newer players just don't know about the blue dog thing?

This kind of restriction doesn't work when there is another card with similar on-gain property. I think it makes more sense to restrict this effect to the first Farmland gain in the Buy phase.

[NoMoreFun]

It's interesting to see what mechanics are being "brought forward."

"When you trash" gets previewed here before Dark Ages (the way Mint previewed when buy/gain).

I think Caravan Guard was the first card to be able to give you irrelevant bonuses outside your turn, and it clarified in the card text that the +Action did nothing. Now Nomads can give you an irrelevant $2 (if Swindler hits it).

[CaptainTheo]

What are the last 3cards to go?

Noble Brigand, Margrave, and..?

My guess is Noble Brigand, Ill-Gotten Gains and Develop. I might have said Farmland instead of Develop but based on the 2nd edition Seaside manual it's staying (and presumably strengthened by new errata where its effect applies on-gain, not just on-buy).

Good point in the post about the new curser making it more likely that IGG is being removed. I could see Margrave being removed instead of Develop. I actually like Develop better than Margrave though have been predicting Margrave to stay as it's the stronger card and there's already been discarding (Goons) and top-decking attacks (Ghost Ship) removed recently.

[Elias Z]

As crlundy suggested on Discord, I was able to make the new cards work by increasing my card pool level.

[mxdata]

It's interesting to see what mechanics are being "brought forward."

"When you trash" gets previewed here before Dark Ages (the way Mint previewed when buy/gain).

I think Caravan Guard was the first card to be able to give you irrelevant bonuses outside your turn, and it clarified in the card text that the +Action did nothing. Now Nomads can give you an irrelevant $2 (if Swindler hits it).

Swindler could actually give you +$4, if your Nomads is replaced by another Nomad

Challenge: Find an edge case where you can actually do something with that +$4 on your opponent's turn. One case that comes to mind: Your opponent plays a second Attack card. You react with Caravan Guard, using Way of the Mouse, which is Black Market. Now you can buy a card from your Black Market with $6 (+$2 from Black Market, and +$4 from Swindler trashing and giving you a Nomads)

[IceHot]

I dont understand getting rid any of these cards and then leaving cards like Possession and Advisor and Haunted Woods and Sauna in the set.  Advisor might be strong but it sucks the life out of the game.  You just make 50 or so meaningless decisions about the player right before you.  I hate that card so much in multiplayer games I deliberately let the player have the best cards.

Instead we get rid of cards that are mostly just Kingdom blanks except when they are great, Might as well just get rid of Gardens and Philsopher's Stone while we are at it.

[Awaclus]

I dont understand getting rid any of these cards and then leaving cards like Possession and Advisor and Haunted Woods and Sauna in the set.

Possession, Advisor, Haunted Woods and Sauna are not in Hinterlands.

[Gherald]

Challenge: Find an edge case where you can actually do something with that +$4 on your opponent's turn

You get 2VP from the new Basilica after Swindler replaces your Nomads.

[Honkeyfresh]

If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't.

Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but why can't you do things like this? I was a little surprised not to see the Wharf/Merchant Ship change.

Well it's a line I've drawn myself; I'm not just making changes that meaningfully functionally change the cards. I'm fixing rules bugs and confusion; this can entail a meaningful change but the change is all about the fix. It's confusing to have two versions of a card; I've lived with that to reduce other confusion. I'm not doing it for card-balancing reasons.

Maybe make a small set of these as a promo.  Maybe called them Socialist Margrave or Socialist Wharf (since socialists don't believe in buying) and like Merchant ship market. As a promo people could either play the better version while not being confusing to the common player.

[spineflu]

If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't.

Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but why can't you do things like this? I was a little surprised not to see the Wharf/Merchant Ship change.

Well it's a line I've drawn myself; I'm not just making changes that meaningfully functionally change the cards. I'm fixing rules bugs and confusion; this can entail a meaningful change but the change is all about the fix. It's confusing to have two versions of a card; I've lived with that to reduce other confusion. I'm not doing it for card-balancing reasons.

Maybe make a small set of these as a promo.  Maybe called them Socialist Margrave or Socialist Wharf (since socialists don't believe in buying) and like Merchant ship market. As a promo people could either play the better version while not being confusing to the common player.

RSP needs to stay in the RSP forum. especially if you're gonna grossly misrepresent the Politics you're talking about.

[grrgrrgrr]

If only I could move the +Buy from Margrave onto Cache (and from Wharf onto Merchant Ship). But I can't.

Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but why can't you do things like this? I was a little surprised not to see the Wharf/Merchant Ship change.

Well it's a line I've drawn myself; I'm not just making changes that meaningfully functionally change the cards. I'm fixing rules bugs and confusion; this can entail a meaningful change but the change is all about the fix. It's confusing to have two versions of a card; I've lived with that to reduce other confusion. I'm not doing it for card-balancing reasons.

Maybe make a small set of these as a promo.  Maybe called them Socialist Margrave or Socialist Wharf (since socialists don't believe in buying) and like Merchant ship market. As a promo people could either play the better version while not being confusing to the common player.

RSP needs to stay in the RSP forum. especially if you're gonna grossly misrepresent the Politics you're talking about.

Not only that, but it also introduces the problem of card A being strictly inferior to card B.

[Imrahil3]

Not only that, but it also introduces the problem of card A being strictly inferior to card B.

I think it’s worth an exception to that rule when following it means an entire class of card won’t work. Merchant Ship is too expensive, and any similar card made that tries to be better will be too expensive as well if it tries to respect the existence of Merchant Ship.

The game is certainly far better off for having that rule than not having it, but people would buy Wharf 2 in 100% of the games Wharf 1 doesn’t show up in and would usually buy it once the Wharf 1’s had run out anyways.