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Author Topic: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1  (Read 9759 times)

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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2022, 03:40:35 pm »
0

Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me.  Love it.  At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.

have you played it yet?  It's really not a top tier card at all.  More mid to low imo.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2022, 03:46:32 pm »
+1

There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2022, 04:02:42 pm »
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me.  Love it.  At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.

Some good Baba Yaga energy
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2022, 04:04:44 pm »
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.

Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no?  Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.

Potions, dollars and debt are entirely separate types of resource. For a card to cost the same as another card, it has to cost exactly as many potions, exactly as many dollars and exactly as many debt. For a card to cost less than another card, at least one of the three values has to be lower and none of them are allowed to be higher. If you discard a Golem (a card that costs one potion, four dollars and zero debt) to Wheelwright, you can gain a card that costs at most one potion, at most four dollars and at most zero debt (for example, a Golem).
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2022, 04:05:49 pm »
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Playing a lil more I am coming around more on the witches hut.  It's basically just a hunting grounds without TFB and with a possibility of handing out a curse.  The game I played it in had no actions  and marginal draw though, and that is where this card does shine.

And I think I like Wheelwright a little more too.  Especially since it can toss duchies and provinces for actions.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2022, 04:06:14 pm »
+2

Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far

I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2022, 04:10:26 pm »
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far

I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green

I guess we could toss in weaver there too.

Weaver will be amazing in Conquest/feodem/decks that reward heavy gaining (tribute, commerce.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2022, 04:11:19 pm »
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There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.
in mega decks with heavy actions/draw Witches hut will be amazing.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2022, 04:23:07 pm »
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.

Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no?  Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.

Potions, dollars and debt are entirely separate types of resource. For a card to cost the same as another card, it has to cost exactly as many potions, exactly as many dollars and exactly as many debt. For a card to cost less than another card, at least one of the three values has to be lower and none of them are allowed to be higher. If you discard a Golem (a card that costs one potion, four dollars and zero debt) to Wheelwright, you can gain a card that costs at most one potion, at most four dollars and at most zero debt (for example, a Golem).

I know how it is, i just think it should be different.

Like simple math says that 4 coins and a potion cost more than 4 coins.  Ergo if Barbarian trashed possession it should get a 6 or less, not zippo as in the status quo. 

Same with debt cards.  Debt is just borrowed but really doesn't change the "cost" of the card ( a concept lost on most people in the real world) just how much you have to pay upfront to buy it. It really evens costs more since being in debt can impede your abilities on the next turn a la black market. If a City Quarter/Overlord gets trashed now you get nothing (unless an engineer happens to be there) and that is crap and so swingy its ridiculous.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 04:24:28 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2022, 04:27:23 pm »
0

There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.
in mega decks with heavy actions/draw Witches hut will be amazing.

I just played a game like that. Worked out well for me, but my opponent really didn't play it right. I feel like if engine ingredients are really that strong, trashing will likely be strong enough to deal with the curses, too.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2022, 04:31:31 pm »
+4

Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me.  Love it.  At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.

have you played it yet?  It's really not a top tier card at all.  More mid to low imo.

No I haven't.  But I don't need to play it to think that the art is top tier.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2022, 04:41:18 pm »
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.

Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no?  Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.

It can gain a copy of what's discarded. So, for example, you can discard an Overlord to gain another Overlord (I had a game with just that combo - Overlord was quickly emptied out!). And you can get a card without potion or debt if the coin part is less. E.g., you can discard a Golem for something costing up to $4P, which can include $4 with no potion cost
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2022, 04:43:18 pm »
+3

I know how it is

Well, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Like simple math says that 4 coins and a potion cost more than 4 coins.

And so do the rules of the game, just like I just explained.

Ergo if Barbarian trashed possession it should get a 6 or less, not zippo as in the status quo.

If Barbarian trashes a Possession, the player being attacked does indeed get an Action costing less than $6P, which could be e.g. an Altar or a Familiar (but not an Engineer because Engineer costs 4 debt more than Possession does, and is therefore not a cheaper card).

Same with debt cards.  Debt is just borrowed but really doesn't change the "cost" of the card ( a concept lost on most people in the real world) just how much you have to pay upfront to buy it. It really evens costs more since being in debt can impede your abilities on the next turn a la black market. If a City Quarter/Overlord gets trashed now you get nothing (unless an engineer happens to be there) and that is crap and so swingy its ridiculous.

Debt is an entirely different type of cost, it has nothing to do with dollars (how you get rid of the debt tokens afterwards does, but that's entirely irrelevant). An Overlord costs 8 debt, 0 dollars and 0 potions so of course you can't gain a card that costs more than 8 debt, more than 0 dollars or more than 0 potions since that would not be a cheaper card (and in the case of Barbarian specifically, Overlord doesn't cost at least 3 dollars, since it doesn't cost even one dollar, so you just gain a Curse).
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2022, 04:44:10 pm »
+1

Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far

I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green

Or revealed, since it tells you to reveal the card! Had a neat game with Patron where I discarded Patrons for coffers along with Cursing my opponent. That also had a strong drawing engine and Mastermind, so it resulted in Witch's Hut being absurdly powerful, since i could usually end up drawing back the cards I discarded to Witch's Hut on the same turn
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2022, 05:06:29 pm »
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My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).

Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2022, 09:08:39 pm »
+1

There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.

Agree, and I'm not a big fan of Workshop cards, although they're okay in some kingdoms.

We've seen a rise in cursers as well.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2022, 09:35:04 pm »
0

I can't resist speculating (again!) on the remaining six cards that will be removed. I'm thinking they're most likely:

Develop, Duchess, Ill-Gotten Gains, Cache, Nomad Camp and Noble Brigand

I include Nomad Camp because one of the new cards is Nomads, and there's one card I thought might be cut (Farmland) that is included in the suggested sets for the Seaside Second Edition, indicating that it's not being removed.

The first edition includes 8 blank cards. Seaside has 12 blank cards and removed them instead of an actual card, which could happen with Hinterlands too, though it seems unlikely with 26 kingdom cards already and the fact that, for Seaside, the first removed card was the blank. If I had to tip one of the six to keep it would be Develop. It if often considered weak and rather awkward though I quite like it, and can occasionally be good to gain on your deck a 5/3 or 6/4 or occasionally even 7/5.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2022, 02:54:49 am »
+3

I am here to eat some crow.  First impressions aren't always correct.  Frankly, all three cards are pretty good. And in retrospect, I'd probably actually rather have them over the cards they replaced.
Witch hut is very good.  Much more as a sifter draw than a curser, but occasional curses are a nice bonus.
Wheelwright is actually pretty bonkers.  It cantrips and the gains can be very nice as often you have big vp cards or dead actions in hand to toss anyway. I'm not even sure I'm fully playing it wright yet, but this seems like a very powerful card.

Weaver is pretty neat actually.  the flexibility of a workshop like gain that can gain two silvers really boost your early economy.  That it also plays as. the reaction is pretty neat too.

Funny the difference a few games can have.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2022, 02:56:53 am »
0

Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me.  Love it.  At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.

have you played it yet?  It's really not a top tier card at all.  More mid to low imo.

No I haven't.  But I don't need to play it to think that the art is top tier.

oof.  But I agree.  The talon legs are pretty crazy on that deliverance cabin.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2022, 02:58:22 am »
0

It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.

Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no?  Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.

It can gain a copy of what's discarded. So, for example, you can discard an Overlord to gain another Overlord (I had a game with just that combo - Overlord was quickly emptied out!). And you can get a card without potion or debt if the coin part is less. E.g., you can discard a Golem for something costing up to $4P, which can include $4 with no potion cost

Ohhhh.  I honestly did not realize that it could gain a copy of the card discarded.  I must've just not noticed all this plusses.  Wow it's even better now.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2022, 02:59:46 am »
0

Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far

I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green

Or revealed, since it tells you to reveal the card! Had a neat game with Patron where I discarded Patrons for coffers along with Cursing my opponent. That also had a strong drawing engine and Mastermind, so it resulted in Witch's Hut being absurdly powerful, since i could usually end up drawing back the cards I discarded to Witch's Hut on the same turn

that's neat.  hadn't noticed the reveal vs discard thing. 
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2022, 03:01:39 am »
+1

My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).

Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.

weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too.  And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2022, 12:02:16 pm »
0

My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).

Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.

weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too.  And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.

Well, it also depends on what's available costing up to $4. If that's only Silver, it's not too terribly useful
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2022, 12:30:44 pm »
+2

My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).

Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.

weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too.  And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.

Well, it also depends on what's available costing up to $4. If that's only Silver, it's not too terribly useful

There's always at least Weaver!
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2022, 05:38:32 pm »
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I remember on the Donald Xs complaints about the original Hinterlands being that the cards were more complex than they needed to be. Duchess didn't need the Spy effect, Trader and Fools Gold didn't need the Reaction, Spice Merchant may not have needed the Woodcutter effect.

But now 2 of the new cards have fairly obscure additional effects - the Cursing of Witch's Hut (quite costly to activate) and the Silver gaining of Weaver.

I never agreed with the original sentiment - Trader's reaction is brilliant and Spice Merchant's Woodcutter effect makes it an interesting late game card, especially when it's the only +buy in the Kingdom. I like how Witch's Hut impacts the late game (in games that are otherwise heading for a tie).
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 02:17:41 am by NoMoreFun »
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