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Author Topic: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance  (Read 9352 times)

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Voltgloss

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2012, 04:05:25 pm »
0

The biggest downside is that you have to draw a very clear line between your setup phase and scoring phase. That is fine, but not the spirit of the puzzle. I said it is equivalent to he is passing every turn; this means that 1. he is not going to grab the cards that you need, 2. He is not going to attack you or build a faster engine to screw everything. It doesn't mean that he will just wait and pass and till you say "OK" and suddenly find he has 10 cities and a silver in hand and can do nothing. For one thing, in the spirit of the puzzle, he can buy a chapel himself when you are buying the chapels and use it to trash his cities. That certainly is "equivalent to passing" in the sense I explained above.

The puzzle rules state:

5. In the setup phase, you may assume perfect luck or not, since your opponent is doing nothing it doesn't matter. In the scoring phase however, you should play with worst luck.

Your opponent buying a chapel and using it to trash the cards you're stuffing him with via Ambassador is not "doing nothing."

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timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2012, 04:17:48 pm »
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The puzzle rules state:

5. In the setup phase, you may assume perfect luck or not, since your opponent is doing nothing it doesn't matter. In the scoring phase however, you should play with worst luck.

Your opponent buying a chapel and using it to trash the cards you're stuffing him with via Ambassador is not "doing nothing."
Yeah, as I said, technically it is a solution. I didn't spend the time to verbose the constraint in a strict way. Anyway, my only point is that the solution I have in mind does not abuse the distinction between the two phases.
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jonts26

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2012, 04:25:37 pm »
+3

OK how about this. I have a bunch of governors and a single possession. Using ambassador I make sure he has 3 schemes and 3 smithies and an outpost (ok works with 5 schemes and 5 smithies but this is crueler), in addition to enough money from actions to buy a colony. On my turn I play all my governors for +cards, followed by a possession. On his turn I buy a colony, playing 3 schemes and 3 smithies and the outpost, putting the 3 smithies on top of the deck. Thus on his turn he can play a smithy to draw all his other actions dead. Rinse, repeat.

EDIT: And to control for worst possible luck on my end, I have schemes and KC's to make sure I top deck enough power to draw my deck.

EDIT2: Or better yet have him topdeck 3 smugglers. Yeah that's meaner.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:33:29 pm by jonts26 »
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Voltgloss

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2012, 04:43:31 pm »
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^ But given timchen's recent clarification, can't your opponent buy and use a trasher (whatever trasher you're using to thin your own deck) during the setup phase to trash the "bad" cards you're feeding him and thereby ruin your strategy?  In particular here, the Outpost, Smithies, and/or Smugglers?

In any case, I must confess I am royally confused by this:

Also, the key in this solution is still a one turn kill with enough possessions.

because it seems to directly and specifically contradict this:

To further constraint the puzzle: you don't possess him so many times in a single turn such that he has no more chance to play his own turn.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:48:08 pm by Voltgloss »
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timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2012, 05:12:35 pm »
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jonts's solution is quite similar in spirit with mine!

As for Voltgloss's concern, if he can manage to stuff those cards in one turn then possess the opponent in the same turn, the opponent won't have the chance to trash anything. In my solution it is possible; not quite sure if it's the case for his.

In any case, I must confess I am royally confused by this:

Also, the key in this solution is still a one turn kill with enough possessions.

because it seems to directly and specifically contradict this:

To further constraint the puzzle: you don't possess him so many times in a single turn such that he has no more chance to play his own turn.
As for this, I am sorry if I confuse anyone, the first sentence refers to your solution with cities, not the solution I have in mind.
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timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 10:55:33 am »
+1

Ok, so here's my own solution:


In your setup phase, you use the KC-Militia-Masq trick to pin your opponent, while setup your deck to have 3*Scheme, 2*GM, 2* Governor, 1 Militia, 1 Masqurade, and 6 KCs. Always top deck  KC*3, Scheme*2, and 2*Governor. This should allow you to draw everything even when you are gaining a lot of Colonies.

After your opponent's deck has been wiped out, you first buy a Potion and 3 Ambassadors. In the next turn (you can no longer pin your opponent due to the potion) you buy a Possession, and Masquerade him a KC.

In the two turns your opponent can first buy a copper/curse; if he did it will be switched to a KC; then another copper/curse.

Note that I would let my opponent to play optimally after releasing the pin (so that in order to falter your plan, he will try to buy something); this is the more realistic situation where you can fight to win the pin, but the opponent can try to do something right after you release the pin.

Now we enter the scoring phase.

Start with the same KC*3 Scheme*2 Governor*1 to draw your deck. Play an Ambassador to give your opponent KC, GM, GM (return them all to the supply). Play the Possession thrice. Now play the Ambassador to give your opponent the last Ambassaor you have.

 At this point, your opponent will have KC and a copper/curse in hand, and KC*1, GM*2, Ambassador*1 in the discard.

In his first possessed turn, pass. In the second possession turn, he must have a KC and a GM in hand. KC the GM to draw his deck. KC another GM; Ambassador the copper/curse to yourself; buy a Colony. In the third possessed turn, he now only has 5 cards in the deck. KC the Ambassador to return the 2 GMs and the other KC to your deck.

Now it's finally his own turn. Unfortunately, he has only KC and ambassador in hand! The best he can do is to give you back the KC and buy another copper/curse.

But now you know what to do. Just stuff him 2*KC 2*GM, and repeat the same trick. You can draw 27 cards from the Schemes and the Governors, with your starting 5 cards that is enough for the 8 Colonies and 8 Curses (if your opponent is doing his best to stop you!) which will appear in your deck near the end.

Is that what you think of as dominance? Wait a sec. There is still something better.
After you acquire a Colony, you can switch gears and ambassador him a KC and a Colony, using the 2 Ambassadors you have without KC them before you KC the second Governor. (start with KC-KC-KC-scheme-scheme-governor to draw everything at this point; play the last scheme and give up the last KC chance. Ambassador the two cards then KC-KC-Governor-Possession.) He will draw the two cards you gave him immediately by the second Governor.

In his possessed turns, he has a KC, a Colony, an Ambassador, and a copper/curse in hand. Now you can shorten his pain: KC-Ambassador the Colony 8 times in the 3 possessed turns, instead of torturing him with the same trick in 8 consecutive turns.

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