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Author Topic: Prosperity 2E Preview 3  (Read 22204 times)

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Donald X.

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Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 01, 2022, 03:00:10 am »
+17

How would you describe the tension, right about now? That's right. It's palpable.



Royal Seal has a great ability, with too high of an opportunity cost. It plays well when there's really nothing better for $5.

Tiara has the Royal Seal ability, and also is a Throne Room for Treasures. And hey, +1 Buy. It really wants you to like it.



Talisman was okay, but was going to need two kinds of errata: not being a while-in-play, and not triggering on buys. At some point I thought, why not just replace it. It was borderline already.

Anvil then is a very simple Treasure Workshop.



Ah, Goons. You've made me so many VP tokens. It's good times. Except for the Militia part. And then you get Goons first and Militia them so they can't afford Goons. And then Militia every turn. It just sucks the fun out of the other part, which is so good.

Collection is trying to be, not just a Goons replacement, but also a different card. I didn't just want Goons minus the Militia. So it's a Treasure, making it easy to play multiples, but cares about Actions specifically, so you can't buy up Coppers for it, or Victory cards. It's a different version of the Goons experience.

There are also three tweaked cards. Another general rule for me was, to not do when-buy triggers anymore. If it all possible, those became when-gain triggers. In a few cases I felt stuck and did "when you gain this, if you bought it."

So Hoard is one of those. Now both a this-turn and a when-gain. It was too problematic without the "if you bought it" part. Mint though could just trigger on gain, so it does. And it doesn't trash Duration cards because that would be confusing with e.g. Astrolabe. And then Quarry is another one converted to this-turn style. This incidentally means you can use Tiara on Quarry and Hoard, which is ideal.

Here are those cards plus the rest of the set:



And that's Prosperity 2E.
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2022, 03:04:27 am »
0

Anvil seems like a really fun card. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been more interesting in say Nocturne, where it could've handed out a different Boon each time instead of always giving the Earth's Gift.
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Erick648

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2022, 03:13:21 am »
+2

So Collection only combos with Watchtower to the extent there are Ruins or other non-spammable cheap Action cards, but Collectionís VP clause does work with Tiara (or Crown).  It also has more of a cap on its VP since you donít have a huge pile of Coppers to get VP from.  It will be interesting to see how often it gets strong games like Goons did.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 03:19:03 am by Erick648 »
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dz

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2022, 03:14:04 am »
+1

Goons and Talisman are some of the worst cards in the game and their deaths will be celebrated. Well, at least by me.

DomBot doesn't have the faq's for errata'ed Lighthouse/Treasury/Mint/Quarry/Hoard yet, but I think you can figure out the differences. So instead you get the faq for the 3 new cards.

Tiara:
ē If you gain multiple cards later in the turn after playing Tiara, you may put any or all of them onto your deck.
ē This applies both to cards gained due to being bought, and to cards gained other ways, such as with War Chest.
ē If you play a Tiara with a Tiara, you will be able to play two Treasures from your hand twice each - you don't play one Treasure four times.

Anvil:
ē Discarding a Treasure is optional.
ē If you discard one, you gain a card costing up to $4 which comes from the Supply and goes to your discard pile.

Collection:
ē You get +1VP for each Action card you gain, whether bought, or gained some other way.
ē Multiple copies of this are cumulative; if you have two Collections in play and buy a Village, you'll get +2VP.

I shared my expansion tier list on discord to uh mixed reactions, so I thought, why not share it here too. Honestly it feels bad to put those 3 expansions in B tier, cause I really like them. On the other hand, I do not feel bad at all about where Dark Ages ended up.

S Tier: Prosperity 2E, Menagerie, Allies, Empires
A Tier: Intrigue 2E, Renaissance, Seaside 2E
B Tier: Nocturne, Adventures, Dominion 2E
[there is a very large gap between B and C tier]
C Tier: Prosperity 1E, Guilds, Intrigue 1E, Dominion 1E
D Tier: Seaside 1E, Dark Ages, Hinterlands
F Tier: Cornucopia, Alchemy, Promos
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 04:31:46 am by dz »
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Augie279

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2022, 03:15:50 am »
0

Anvil seems like a really fun card. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been more interesting in say Nocturne, where it could've handed out a different Boon each time instead of always giving the Earth's Gift.

Wouldn't that have literally just been Treasure-Tracker?
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urza

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2022, 03:31:35 am »
+2

At first I was shocked by Goons being out, but I totally follow the logic of replacing it with Collection.  Also surprised that Hoard survived, I never liked that card, but at least changing it to "this turn" makes it a little better.

Also, I'm wondering about the upgrade pack.  I assume it will just contain the 9 new cards, but there are quite a few old cards that have functional changes that might be confusing to explain to people.  Is the general rule to just play the cards as written?
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2022, 04:20:23 am »
+3

I don't know if it's just me but I don't like Hoard's new wording. I understand the rules confusion it was trying to fix, but it sounds very clunky to me.

It also removes the interaction with Trader where you could play Hoard, buy Estate and reveal Trader, to gain Silver and a Gold, which was maybe not the strongest thing ever but quite a fun little interaction.
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2022, 04:20:57 am »
0

I'm not going to miss either Royal Seal or Talisman. I'm pretty surprised at Goons being removed but the replacement card is quite a good substitute especially as I was never really fond of the attack part of Goons. I quite like the other replacement cards too.

Glad that Hoard stayed, and approve of the tweaks to it and Quarry.

One thing that puzzles me is that although Prosperity started with the same number of cards as Base Game, Intrigue and Seaside, it has not increased the number of cards in the set by one, remaining at 25 rather than 26. Hence I thought there would only be two more cards removed from this collection, rather than three.
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Ingix

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2022, 04:37:08 am »
+3

It also removes the interaction with Trader where you could play Hoard, buy Estate and reveal Trader, to gain Silver and a Gold, which was maybe not the strongest thing ever but quite a fun little interaction.

That isn't changed, it still works. Note that Trader changed, so you now do gain the bought Estate (triggering Hoard and Trader), so you gain a Gold and can exchange the Estate for a Silver, in either order.
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Holger

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2022, 07:03:48 am »
+2

I'm not going to miss either Royal Seal or Talisman. I'm pretty surprised at Goons being removed but the replacement card is quite a good substitute especially as I was never really fond of the attack part of Goons. I quite like the other replacement cards too.

Glad that Hoard stayed, and approve of the tweaks to it and Quarry.

One thing that puzzles me is that although Prosperity started with the same number of cards as Base Game, Intrigue and Seaside, it has not increased the number of cards in the set by one, remaining at 25 rather than 26. Hence I thought there would only be two more cards removed from this collection, rather than three.

Prosperity has two extra piles (Colony and Platinum) which take up space. All expansions have a total number of cards (including blanks) divisible by 50, and most have a total number of cards divisible by 100 (presumably due to printing issues). So a single extra kingdom card was possible for Base, Intrigue and Seaside (since those sets each had 11+ blank cards or unnecessary "base card randomizers"), but not for the already "full" 300-card Prosperity set.

I would have liked the set to be increased to 350 (or even 400) cards by keeping some of the removed cards, though. I'd have liked to keep Venture and Loan at least, and Contraband is a fun interactive card for casual players...
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2022, 10:11:38 am »
0

Thatís it prosperity is trash! Now that goons is gone my opinion of dominion goes way down. My love of dominion is no longer a game I like. Goons was one of my most favorite cards. For the creator of the game to remove a powerful card, because itís simply an attack. Iím not going to need to waste my money on these new cards. I ban every card for dominion online that is from prosperity.
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4est

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2022, 10:14:47 am »
+2

Really happy with all the removals and additions here. I'll definitely miss those wacky games where getting all the Talismans is the right play, but it's weak otherwise. And glad to see Goons gone, I'll miss the bonkers amounts of VP tokens, but the average Dominion game is more fun without it.

Love Tiara's connection to Crown as a Throne for Treasures. And there are now so many more Treasures worth Tiara-ing. Topdecking two $5s with Quarry will be grand.

Anvil is clean and simple, though I'm mostly glad we didn't leave Watchtower lonely as the only $3 in Prosperity.

And then Collection is exactly what I'd hope a new Goons would be, no attack, easier to play multiples of, but much harder to get a majillion VP tokens with. It also brings the game to an end much faster than Goons by only working on Action cards.

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Overall, some fantastic new 2E sets! Dominion is getting better every year.
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emtzalex

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2022, 10:55:36 am »
+6

Collection + Stampede
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Cuzz

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2022, 10:57:01 am »
0

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2022, 11:00:38 am »
+1

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.
Isnít it generally a bad idea to throw 8 stop cards into your deck all at once?
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Cuzz

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2022, 11:05:51 am »
0

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.
Isnít it generally a bad idea to throw 8 stop cards into your deck all at once?

Well keep in mind when you trash the Hunting Grounds you free up a terminal slot.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2022, 11:16:25 am »
0

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.
Isnít it generally a bad idea to throw 8 stop cards into your deck all at once?

Well keep in mind when you trash the Hunting Grounds you free up a terminal slot.
You also just trashed one of your draw cards. I donít think an engine can pull off a Hoard gold dump and be better off on the other side.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2022, 11:38:04 am »
0

All the new while in play and when gain changes are good, especially for Quarry and Mint, though I don't totally get the Hoard one--is there a reason this can't just be on-gain?

Utterly OP with Hunting Grounds and Sprawling Castle.

I think it is also just future proofing. If there is a card that allows you to exchange a gained Gold for a Duchy, for example, then things could get quite hairy. (and honestly, I think Harem should have the added effect "in games using this, when you gain a Gold, you gain a Harem instead". But that'd mandate Harem to have two horizontal lines, which is a big no-no)

Anvil seems like a really fun card. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been more interesting in say Nocturne, where it could've handed out a different Boon each time instead of always giving the Earth's Gift.

With most boons, this would be pretty bland and weak (especially considering this is a Treasure). So no, bad idea.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 11:40:04 am by grrgrrgrr »
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X-tra

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2022, 12:10:13 pm »
+5

Thatís it prosperity is trash! Now that goons is gone my opinion of dominion goes way down. My love of dominion is no longer a game I like. Goons was one of my most favorite cards. For the creator of the game to remove a powerful card, because itís simply an attack. Iím not going to need to waste my money on these new cards. I ban every card for dominion online that is from prosperity.
I realize that this is most likely a troll comment, but Iím procrastinating at work anyway, so I might as well take the bait to fight the good internet fight. Also Iíve always wanted to do something like this, tee-hee. So, uh, letís dissect this wonderful love letter to Dominion which is in no way at all abrasive and rude.

Thatís it prosperity is trash!
To kick things off, we got ourselves a beautiful ad hominem. Also thatís a massive overreaction.

Now that goons is gone my opinion of dominion goes way down. My love of dominion is no longer a game I like. Goons was one of my most favorite cards.
You have every right to personally love certain cards. But let us remind ourselves that this one card. One card! Among a sea of amazing content. We have 400+ Dominion cards; Goons accounted for 0.25% of Dominion. You cannot argue in good faith that this ridiculously small percentage of the game was the only thing that kept you hooked.

More to the point, Goons is not gone. If you play physically, you still own your cards. Donald wonít rock up to your house personally to rip your cards. The Temple Gates app on Steam/Android/IOS also keeps the removed cards. As a Copper strategist, you can even buy Coppersmith there!!!

For the creator of the game to remove a powerful card, because itís simply an attack.
That is not why Goons got removed. Did you even read Donaldís blurb above? A Militia Attack is fine. Plenty of cards in Dominion use it. Just check the most recent expansion, Allies. Thereís Skirmisher there, thatís a Militia Attack! Itís all about execution though. Goons has a steep price point. Combined with the Militia Attack, thatís where the problem arises. Like Donald said, you can lock someone out of buying Goons long enough. That wouldnít be so bad if Goons wasnít so centralizing. As your opponent struggles to acquire a Goons of their on, meanwhile, you score enough for them to never be able to close that gap for the rest of the game. So itís not just the Attack that was problematic: Itís the combination of the Attack, the price of the card and the farming effect.

Iím not going to need to waste my money on these new cards.
You do you. Youíre the customer, you control your wallet. Though if I may, I think youíre doing yourself a disservice here, since the new Prosperity cards are damn good. Including Collection. Collection is objectively a better card than Goons design and gameplay wise in any way imaginable. Try it! Itís actually really fun to build around this card! Plus, as a Copper strategist, you get Charlatan now. Thereís fun stuff there, right?

I ban every card for dominion online that is from prosperity.
You can only ban up to 5 cards. Luckily this new edition of Prosperity means youíll have a new free slot where Mountebank used to be!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 12:59:45 pm by X-tra »
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Meta

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2022, 12:28:47 pm »
+4

Now that goons is gone my opinion of dominion goes way down. My love of dominion is no longer a game I like. Goons was one of my most favorite cards.
You have every right to personally love certain cards. But let us remind ourselves that this one card. One card! Among a sea of amazing content. We have 400+ Dominion cards; Goons accounted for 0.0025% of Dominion. You cannot argue in good faith that this ridiculously small percentage of the game was the only thing that kept you hooked.

More to the point, Goons is not gone. If you play physically, you still owe your cards. Donald wonít rock up to your house personally to rip your cards. The Temple Gates app on Steam/Android/IOS also keeps the removed cards. As a Copper strategist, you can even buy Coppersmith there!!!

Goons accounted for 0.25% of Dominion as 1/400=0.0025 not 0.000025
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mxdata

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2022, 12:46:50 pm »
0

Collection + Stampede

Collection + Supplies will be good too
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2022, 12:53:13 pm »
+8

Collection + Stampede

With any trasher in the kingdom, this is a 50 VP/turn golden deck.
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mxdata

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2022, 01:00:02 pm »
+5

To be honest, I'm kind of sad to see while-in-play being phased out. In most of the cards that had that clause, it seems more logical than this turn. In fact, if anything, I've long felt that a few this-turn cards, such as Livery, would make more sense as while-in-play. Also, I don't understand why Hoard has the new wording, when there's no functional difference. Were there really that many people confused about the difference between "when you buy" vs "when you gain"? Seems like anyone confused by that would be just as confused by the new Hoard phrasing
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2022, 01:02:07 pm »
+1

More to the point, Goons is not gone. If you play physically, you still owe your cards. Donald wonít rock up to your house personally to rip your cards. The Temple Gates app on Steam/Android/IOS also keeps the removed cards. As a Copper strategist, you can even buy Coppersmith there!!!

AND depending on your printing of Prosperity, your cards will still match in a feel way, in a way the 1E Original and Intrigue cards don't, since there's no cardstock upgrade this time.
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2022, 01:17:14 pm »
+6

Seeing how much "When you buy" is being phased out, I wonder what will happen to Guilds' overpay mechanic.
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