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Author Topic: Prosperity 2E Preview 3  (Read 22205 times)

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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2022, 01:33:01 pm »
+2

I'm also curious to what the fate of Haggler will be when its set will be revisited. That card has while-in-play effect that really shouldn't be throneable (though I also believed that with Merchant Guild). I kinda suspect that this card will get a stronger on-play effect, but only gains one extra card per play.

Also, when is Highway getting the throneable glory it deserves?
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mandioca15

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2022, 01:34:52 pm »
+2

Tiara goes well with Bank - you can play Bank twice for (hopefully) lots of coins, and Tiara even provides the Buy Bank really needs. Tiara also contributes $1 to Bank's total, and you can topdeck any gains you make!
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2022, 02:09:40 pm »
0

Black Market/Collection looks like a fun combo.
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Dominionduke

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2022, 02:22:31 pm »
+6

Collection + Stampede

With any trasher in the kingdom, this is a 50 VP/turn golden deck.
If both players do this the game never ends.
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vidicate

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2022, 03:15:15 pm »
0

Anvil seems like a really fun card. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been more interesting in say Nocturne, where it could've handed out a different Boon each time instead of always giving the Earth's Gift.

Wouldn't that have literally just been Treasure-Tracker?

I was thinking wimpy Idol.
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emtzalex

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2022, 03:15:46 pm »
+2

Collection + Stampede

With any trasher in the kingdom, this is a 50 VP/turn golden deck.

Technically, you can make this into a Golden Deck without trashing. If there's no handsize/drawing attacks, the 10 Horses you will gain will eventually turn into 15 cards. If those are your starting 10 + 5 copies of Collection, you still get the 50 VP per turn Golden Deck. This will rarely be the optimal strategy, as it prevents you from buying any other non-one-shot card. Being able to play 3-4 (and occassionally 5) Collections and making the rest up with Silver is good enough, especially if you can win the Collections split. On the other hand, in a Collections - Stampeded - Ride - Experement deck, if you open $5/$2, it might we worth trying to grab 5 Collections without buying anything else.

Collection + Stampede

With any trasher in the kingdom, this is a 50 VP/turn golden deck.
If both players do this the game never ends.

Unless one wins the split and gets 6 copies. Then the other person can either resign, or the split winner can run up the score so much (able to score 50 points per turn to their opponent's 40) that the other player can't make it up in 8 turns, and the first player can buy out the Provinces (or whatever). But that would take forever, so the split loser should probably resign.

But if there was a clean split, you are correct.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2022, 03:58:39 pm »
+1

Seeing how much "When you buy" is being phased out, I wonder what will happen to Guilds' overpay mechanic.

Probably left alone right? It's clear the act of buying is being called on with overpay, no confusion there. I think it's in the same category as Animal Fair. Being able to pay $ on gain could also work but may also disappoint new players (can you gain a Doctor and overpay 1 with just a workshop?).

Haggler is a card where figuring out a non clunky "when gain" wording might be tricky. I think Noble Brigand is a goner in Hinterlands 2E. Farmland may be too (the design could be done similarly in an event - maybe an expensive "Gain a Duchy and Expand" event), or maybe Fortress will be removed from Dark Ages 2E.
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2022, 04:11:31 pm »
+1

or maybe Fortress will be removed from Dark Ages 2E.

Infinite/degenerate combos have to be considered, whether it involves removed cards or not. Taking out Fortress wonít help here.
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Meta

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2022, 04:31:05 pm »
+1

To be honest, I'm kind of sad to see while-in-play being phased out. In most of the cards that had that clause, it seems more logical than this turn. In fact, if anything, I've long felt that a few this-turn cards, such as Livery, would make more sense as while-in-play. Also, I don't understand why Hoard has the new wording, when there's no functional difference. Were there really that many people confused about the difference between "when you buy" vs "when you gain"? Seems like anyone confused by that would be just as confused by the new Hoard phrasing

I was really confused when I saw the new wording on hoard. I thought it was an errata because you could somehow buy cards without gaining them or something and that that would maybe lead to emptying out the gold pile. I would have never figured out it was simply meant to mean the same as the old Hoard.
It's a similar issue the german cards had though, where the old HIG rules treated gaining and buying as two distinct things, before correcting them for Hinterlands.
I'm kinda sad too see such unnecessarily clunky wording appearing on new cards though, and hope the german cards don't follow suit, as this change seems utterly stupid to me.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2022, 04:38:33 pm »
+1

With Hoard, is there some big issue with just being a normal on-gain? Is it only because you didnít want to change power level with the errata? But why not on-gain from the start?
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kieranmillar

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2022, 04:52:57 pm »
+5

This is answered in the Prosperity 2E secret history that just came out.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21263.0

Quote
Hoard: Dropped "while in play" in favor of "this turn"; now triggers on gains not buys, though it still only works on cards you bought. This is a general change; when-buy triggers confuse things for casual players. Why not just "when gain"? The issue is loops. Hoard can happen multiple times a turn, and lets you go up in value - you gain an Estate, it comes with a Gold. Reasonable-looking cards - and I've playtested multiple cards like this - can loop with Hoard, so that you empty the Estates and Duchies. Well those cards don't exist so who cares? I decided in the end that I cared.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2022, 05:54:53 pm »
0

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)
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Awaclus

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2022, 06:38:21 pm »
0

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)

Being able to gain 10 Skulks for free is probably not going to break the game in most situations.
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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2022, 07:20:37 pm »
+2

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)

This interaction already exists. Guildmaster + Architect's Guild means that you can buy a Skulk and get the other 9 for free. Play Guildmaster twice and you can also gain 10 non-Victory cards costing $5 in this loop, and 10 non-Victory cards costing less than $4, often letting you empty 3 piles immediately. However, it doesn't come with any VP, so if all you are going to do with that loop is pile out, you'll need a points lead first (unlike a hypothetical interaction that enabled emptying the Duchies and Estates).
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beri

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2022, 07:26:06 pm »
0

Collection + Stampede
Yup, will make games quite stupid. Would Collection suck if on-buy?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2022, 07:44:26 pm »
+2

Collection + Stampede
Yup, will make games quite stupid. Would Collection suck if on-buy?

Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2022, 08:36:34 pm »
+7

Collection + Stampede
Yup, will make games quite stupid. Would Collection suck if on-buy?

Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.
Which still bothers me - they need to learn this distinction anyways because they have to learn they can still buy after playing Workshop.
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JW

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2022, 09:37:30 pm »
0

Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.

And, even for players who understand the distinction, it can be confusing how the timing of on-buy and on-gain effects differ.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2022, 10:44:42 pm »
0

Yeah of course Iím exaggerating. However how would you feel if your most favorite card also got replaced. Out of over hundreds of cards goons is one of my most favorite cards itís in my top 10. For it to be removed from dominion online and future physical copies is absolute drag for me. Not only that but my most hated card in the whole set gets to stay! Mint is in my top 10 most hated dominion cards. And as matter of fact it also happened to seaside. Embargo is in my top 25 most loved cards and lookout is in my top 10 most hated cards.  When I bought prosperity the there were very few cards I liked from the set to begin with. Goons was prosperity s one redeeming quality in my eyes. Without it itís a ruined expansion in my eyes. And yes Iím well aware that goons has its pros and cons. But for me the pros outweigh the cons. As for me I wasnít interested in an expansion with tons of different treasure cards. And now that it was removed, well it wonít be the same without goons my favorite militia variant. And Iím sure Iím not the only one on dominion online thatís going to miss it. Goodbye goons this is cruel world indeed. And not replacing mint is criminal.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2022, 10:46:39 pm »
+4

Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.

And, even for players who understand the distinction, it can be confusing how the timing of on-buy and on-gain effects differ.

Well thatís fixable by making them both happen after the gain.
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Gherald

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2022, 11:29:32 pm »
+2

There was never anything wrong with Mint, and it's an even better card now that nearly all Prosperity's treasures are something you may want more than a single copy of.
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Sade

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2022, 11:42:51 pm »
+1

And not replacing mint is criminal.

Well, technically, Mint was replaced in Prosperity 2E. The 2E Mint is functionally different (however slightly) from the 1E Mint, so you could say that the 2E Mint is a new card that replaced an older one, not unlike Goons --> Collection.
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Donald X.

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2022, 12:15:26 am »
+1

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)

Being able to gain 10 Skulks for free is probably not going to break the game in most situations.
That is certainly the hope. It does come up for some cards though, as a specific thing to check.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2022, 02:29:56 am »
+1

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)

This interaction already exists. Guildmaster + Architect's Guild means that you can buy a Skulk and get the other 9 for free. Play Guildmaster twice and you can also gain 10 non-Victory cards costing $5 in this loop, and 10 non-Victory cards costing less than $4, often letting you empty 3 piles immediately. However, it doesn't come with any VP, so if all you are going to do with that loop is pile out, you'll need a points lead first (unlike a hypothetical interaction that enabled emptying the Duchies and Estates).

Border Village, Ferry, and a when-gain Hoard would enable this loop while gaining Estates.
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faust

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Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2022, 03:40:34 am »
0

Doesn't Skulk have the same problem? (Card that comes with a card more expensive than it)

This interaction already exists. Guildmaster + Architect's Guild means that you can buy a Skulk and get the other 9 for free. Play Guildmaster twice and you can also gain 10 non-Victory cards costing $5 in this loop, and 10 non-Victory cards costing less than $4, often letting you empty 3 piles immediately. However, it doesn't come with any VP, so if all you are going to do with that loop is pile out, you'll need a points lead first (unlike a hypothetical interaction that enabled emptying the Duchies and Estates).

Border Village, Ferry, and a when-gain Hoard would enable this loop while gaining Estates.
Or, for Duchies: Ferry, Hunting Grounds, Watchtower in hand.
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