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Author Topic: Seaside 2E Preview 3  (Read 13210 times)

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Donald X.

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Seaside 2E Preview 3
« on: May 18, 2022, 03:00:10 am »
+14

The final three new cards for Seaside. The tension is palpable. Or would be if I left a big blank space here or something.



Explorer is fine. It's been complained about a lot over the years, but well, it's really not so bad. But it was borderline, it was a contender for going, and then I wanted to add Pirate, which is similar. So, out with Explorer.

Pirate gains a Gold next turn, or maybe some other Treasure, and maybe faster than it looks.



Pirate Ship for years has been one of the very weakest cards in the game. At the same time it terrifies casual multiplayer groups, where everyone buys it and so someone who bought it wins. It also requires tokens for again just a single card in the expansion.

I felt like some people would be sad to have no piratey shippy thing, so there's Corsair. It attacks Treasures in a way that doesn't help your opponents.



Ambassador! It's such a classic old Dominion card. At first it just looks silly; later you find out it's a powerhouse. It's not necessarily a problem in 2-player, though you get a sub-game of trashing down with Ambassadors before you get to the main game after that. But in multiplayer, it can just shut you out. As with Ghost Ship, you don't get to see your deck.

Sailor is unrelated, other than also covering trashing. It's a Duration card that ties into Duration cards, by letting them leap into play. And if there aren't any other ones on the board, well it can work with another Sailor.

But wait, there's more. A few cards got errata. My philosophy has shifted on "while in play"; now I think it's way more confusing than "this turn." For some years there I thought the opposite; let's hope I don't reverse again there. So, Lighthouse has a different phrasing to get rid of "while in play." And then Treasury wanted to not be in the tiny font if possible. And it was possible. Here's the whole set, with all current wordings / images, only small.



I know what you're thinking. What about Lookout and Merchant Ship? I always thought casual players hated Lookout, but when I actually polled some, they didn't. And they absolutely loved Merchant Ship, even though for experts it was a shoe-in to go, one of the first cards any of them would think of replacing. And then I had a new Explorer too. So Lookout and Merchant Ship survived (secret history: if I'd replaced Lookout, it would have been with Sentinel). And whatever else you want to ask about probably has a similar story. I got to replace 9 cards, counting blanks; some work went into those choices. Lots of people weighed in, and I playtested the removed cards too, for just how replace-worthy they were.

There you have it, Seaside 2E! I hope you like it. I'll have a little more to say about the cards in the Secret History. And somehow Prosperity 2E will follow just a few weeks after Seaside 2E (there is no more precise date yet okay).
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Awaclus

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 03:17:56 am »
+22

Now they can all be the best $5 ever.
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Gherald

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 04:02:50 am »
+5

Merchant Ship: An old card that never changed.
...
Wharf: The original version didn't have the +1 Buy. It got that to compare more favorably to Merchant Ship.
And some decisions are forever :O
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 04:12:34 am »
+2

Governor + Pirate looks like a fun combo.
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Meta

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 04:15:03 am »
+4

I'm surprised that Cutpurse made it, and sad that Ghost ship and Ambassador got cut. But all in all I think the choice of replaced Cards is pretty good actually.
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ossiangrr

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2022, 05:46:17 am »
+2

I thought it was interesting that Sailor can let you play Night-Duration cards during your Action or Buy phase.. but no particularly odd interactions there.
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beri

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2022, 05:54:21 am »
+5

Im surprised that Treasure map made it!
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Awaclus

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2022, 06:29:01 am »
+6

Merchant Ship: An old card that never changed.
...
Wharf: The original version didn't have the +1 Buy. It got that to compare more favorably to Merchant Ship.
And some decisions are forever :O

Those decisions were based on some really solid reasoning. Wharf with the +buy does indeed compare extremely favorably to Merchant Ship.
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4est

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2022, 07:53:44 am »
0

If I play Sailor and then play Blockade, gaining Caravan, do I get to play the Caravan? Or no, because Blockade set it aside?
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pate

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2022, 07:58:42 am »
+4

Im a little surprised that since island remained in game that it wasnt erratad to make the mat for it an exile mat.  Seams silly that in a game with island and exiles in play you would need to bring out two mats still when they behave so similarly. 
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Gherald

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2022, 08:02:33 am »
+1

If I play Sailor and then play Blockade, gaining Caravan, do I get to play the Caravan? Or no, because Blockade set it aside?
You can choose to use Sailor's ability, just like you could choose to use, say, Cargo Ship or Innovation's ability. All these things are optional ("You may"). If you don't use an optional ability, the instructions of Blockade proceed and apply as normal.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2022, 08:16:09 am »
+3

Im a little surprised that since island remained in game that it wasnt erratad to make the mat for it an exile mat.  Seams silly that in a game with island and exiles in play you would need to bring out two mats still when they behave so similarly.
But itd be the only Exile card in the expansion. If any change would be made it should be to just set it aside under the Island.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2022, 08:21:16 am »
+6

Im a little surprised that since island remained in game that it wasnt erratad to make the mat for it an exile mat.  Seams silly that in a game with island and exiles in play you would need to bring out two mats still when they behave so similarly.

Island with Exile plays a little differently, as you can get your Islands back off the mat by gaining one. That could actually be relevant in gameplay.

I'm more surprised it wasn't reworded not to need a mat at all ("set aside for the rest of the game"). Native Village could also be reworded to avoid mats but it seems like mats was easier.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2022, 08:29:08 am »
+1

I'm surprised Cutpurse wasn't errata'd to only attack larger hand sizes
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Dominionduke

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2022, 08:39:33 am »
0

I love duration carts, so I am happy to see all those new duration carts, but  I think that if you play with only seaside, there are too many of them.
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Meta

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2022, 09:04:34 am »
0

I'm surprised Cutpurse wasn't errata'd to only attack larger hand sizes
Probably because it would occur rarely, and almost never influence the game in a meaningful way. So why bother adding more words to this card.
And it'd also be a nerf to an already weak card, so I don't really see a reason to change it.
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markusin

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2022, 09:15:11 am »
+1

If I play Sailor and then play Blockade, gaining Caravan, do I get to play the Caravan? Or no, because Blockade set it aside?
You can choose to use Sailor's ability, just like you could choose to use, say, Cargo Ship or Innovation's ability. All these things are optional ("You may"). If you don't use an optional ability, the instructions of Blockade proceed and apply as normal.

I don't know about this. I think Blockade forcibly sets the card aside, without visiting the discard pile. So, the card is already set aside when Sailor gets to choose to play it. But I don't think it can move it out of set-aside land, and with the new rules requirement of a card needing to move into play to be played the first time (to allow thrones to replay cards that left play after the first play), Sailor cannot play the card gained with Blockade.
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Gherald

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2022, 09:16:46 am »
+3

There is no doubt. Sailor can play the card the moment it is gained, before Blockade sets it aside.

Edit: Another fun fact for people who haven't yet read Blockade closely, is that the embargo/curse effect only applies while Blockade has its gained card set aside. Anything that interferes with the card remaining set aside by Blockade (such as Sailor putting it into play!), stops the embargo curse effect from happening.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 09:53:15 am by Gherald »
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J Reggie

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2022, 09:19:03 am »
+6

What surprises me the most is that now Seaside, the 3rd set, has a way to play Action cards (and Night cards) in your buy phase. I guess it's not that much of a problem rules-wise, but I've always seen that as at least a 12th set thing, potentially confusing to newer players. But I'm sure Donald knows what he's doing!

GendoIkari

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2022, 09:33:44 am »
+5

So what's the deal with the mats? Are Island and Native Village mats being re-drawn to look like they should only have 2 mats? The german promotional image/spoiler shows the other 2 mats with their original artwork. But Pirate Ship was the middle of the 3!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 09:34:50 am by GendoIkari »
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NiCkLeB474

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2022, 09:59:35 am »
+2

Currently I am leaning towards, Villa (and pals) will actually end the Buy phase. This can trigger Wine Merchant, Exploration, Pageant, Merchant Guild.

The idea is just, if we asked a casual player, wouldn't they say that the Buy phase ended? I mean after gaining Villa you're no longer in it. We call that "ending."

This would allow the errata'd Treasury to topdeck itself when returning to the Action phase. Not too big of an issue, but it could lead to tracking difficulties for Coins on your turn.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 10:01:47 am by NiCkLeB474 »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2022, 10:01:32 am »
+3

What surprises me the most is that now Seaside, the 3rd set, has a way to play Action cards (and Night cards) in your buy phase. I guess it's not that much of a problem rules-wise, but I've always seen that as at least a 12th set thing, potentially confusing to newer players. But I'm sure Donald knows what he's doing!

It's definitely confusing for new players. It's especially difficult to explain that they can't play drawn Treasures. It would be nice if there were a Treasure phase and a Buy phase, but sadly that's not the case. And honestly I don't know how much it would help anyway.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2022, 10:03:49 am »
+1

So what's the deal with the mats? Are Island and Native Village mats being re-drawn to look like they should only have 2 mats? The german promotional image/spoiler shows the other 2 mats with their original artwork. But Pirate Ship was the middle of the 3!

If you never knew about Pirate Ship, I doubt most people would realize there was ever a third mat in between them. It seems nonsensical to create new art to solve what doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'll miss the triptych as well, but rare was the game that actually used all three mats.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2022, 10:13:38 am »
+5

So what's the deal with the mats? Are Island and Native Village mats being re-drawn to look like they should only have 2 mats? The german promotional image/spoiler shows the other 2 mats with their original artwork. But Pirate Ship was the middle of the 3!

If you never knew about Pirate Ship, I doubt most people would realize there was ever a third mat in between them. It seems nonsensical to create new art to solve what doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'll miss the triptych as well, but rare was the game that actually used all three mats.

This makes me a little sad... even if you rarely needed all 3 mats in the same game, the fact is that the components were created that way; putting the 3 mats together did make a single continuous muriel. And that was a very cool thing about Seaside, I remember in my early Dominion days always putting all 3 mats out together when I played a game that needed any mat. Just because it was cool. It seems very weird to just now take the middle of those 3 mats and remove them from newer boxes.
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Gherald

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 3
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2022, 10:31:01 am »
+5

Errata: Place all Silvers and Golds trashed by Corsair on the Pirate Ship mat.

Problems, we solve them 8)

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