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Author Topic: Seaside 2E Preview 1  (Read 13189 times)

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Donald X.

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Seaside 2E Preview 1
« on: May 16, 2022, 03:00:19 am »
+22

Seaside 2E! At last, its mysteries may be revealed.

Each day for 3 days I'll show 3 cards leaving, and the 3 replacing them, and talk about all six. The last day will throw in the miscellaneous minor errata because why not, someone cares.

The overall goal was... to take out bad-to-print cards and replace them with better-to-print ones. That was really all I was doing. But along the way the percentage of the cards that are Durations went up; in fact all but one of the new cards are Durations. And I see this as a good thing, of course, or I wouldn't have done it. There is twice as much of the set's new thing. And then, Seaside was a bit low on draw; Seaside 2E has more draw. On to the cards!



I guess someone out there will miss the blanks. I think they're still available as a promo? Obv. the set would be better with a card in that slot. There's still a single blank.

Astrolabe is a Treasure - Duration! And not something like Contract that manages to avoid any issues if you trash it from play. What can it mean? Well, when the time comes to reprint the sets with Bonfire etc., those cards will get errata so that they don't mess up with Durations. And then so much for trashing Astrolabe in a confusing way. So anyway, Astrolabe itself is just a vanilla Duration card, but it's a Treasure and well just look at it. So pretty.



Embargo requires dedicated tokens, just for this card that often no-one buys. That sure wanted to be fixed. And it already had errata due to the changes to Band of Misfits & co.

Blockade is the new Embargo. No tokens required. And it blocks other players and not you, and they can't even get around it with Workshops. It really embargoes things, you get the embargoing experience you always wanted.



Ghost Ship actually won a most-hated attack poll on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/99rlui/results_most_hated_attacks/). Expert players may miss it, but it makes casual players miserable. You don't get to see your deck, that's the main thing. For Dominion and Intrigue 2E, weak cards left; for Seaside 2E, a few strong cards left too.

Monkey isn't even an attack; Seaside is following in the footsteps of later sets, that are a little lighter on attacks. It's interactive though. You draw cards if they gain cards. They'll feel attacked, take it from me.

http://dominion.games/ plans to have the cards available to play via a "preview" mode; they're probably there as you read this. More previews tomorrow!
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dz

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2022, 03:27:32 am »
+2

With the help of Discord DomBot, here are the official rulebook entries for the cards, plus some other rulings:

Astrolabe:
• This gives you +1 Buy and +$1 on the turn you play it, and +1 Buy and +$1 on your next turn too.

Blockade:
• The gained card comes from the Supply and is set aside; put it on the Blockade to remember which card goes with Blockade.
• If the gained card somehow doesn't end up set aside (for example if you trash it with Watchtower from Prosperity), nothing further happens; if the card is set aside, then you put it into your hand on your next turn, and until then, when other players gain the card on their own turns, they also gain a Curse.

Unlike Summon, the card is directly gained to set aside land. So if you gain a Nomad Camp or Ghost Town, you didn't gain it to your discard pile, so their abilities don't trigger. If the card is no longer set aside (like in the Watchtower example), Blockade doesn't stay in play for next turn. Like all Duration attacks, you have to reveal your Moat as soon as it's played.

Monkey:
• This includes cards that the player gains on other players' turns, such as a Curse they gain on your turn via Witch.

When they gain the card, they resolve all their on-gain effects before you resolve Monkey (which could matter vs Skirmisher). If you draw a reaction that could respond to the card they gained (such as Falconer), you can use it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 04:09:22 am by dz »
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faust

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2022, 03:33:51 am »
+9

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2022, 03:43:29 am »
+7

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.

Way of the Astrolabe
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2022, 04:09:39 am »
+10

Blank was certainly one of the less frequently bought cards. It never really synergised with anything. Happy to see it go.

Astrolabe is the next turn Market. I like the look of Blockade.
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beri

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2022, 04:49:13 am »
+1

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.
Then it should be Parrot.

My bet for the next removed cards is on: Navigator, Explorer, Pearl diver, Ambassador, Treasure map, Pirate ship, Sea hag.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 04:52:36 am by beri »
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2022, 05:55:01 am »
0

cool idea. one of the main reasons i love dominion is how the creator/developer actively changes things up to keep things fresh. definitely adds replay value
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2022, 06:43:19 am »
0

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.
Then it should be Parrot.

My bet for the next removed cards is on: Navigator, Explorer, Pearl diver, Ambassador, Treasure map, Pirate ship, Sea hag.

Only six more cards are getting the axe, and it’s been more or less deduced which six remaining cards will be removed.
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2022, 07:06:26 am »
0

Yay! More cards!
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2022, 09:26:01 am »
+2

This art is on point!

mxdata

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2022, 09:54:46 am »
0

As it currently stands, Crypt can still have an odd interaction with Astrolabe, though that issue had already existed since Renaissance introduced the Capitalism project. Will Crypt also get errata to no longer work with Durations?
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2022, 10:30:44 am »
+3

Embargoing provinces and duchies made for interesting end games.  Even embargoing gold or potion piles was fun.    The big problem with embargo early game was that there was no way to embargo the good cards from your opponent while leaving an opening for you to get the embargoed card.


If embargo had taken effect at the end of the turn instead of right away, it would have been a big difference. 
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 10:50:52 am »
+2

As it currently stands, Crypt can still have an odd interaction with Astrolabe, though that issue had already existed since Renaissance introduced the Capitalism project. Will Crypt also get errata to no longer work with Durations?

Counterfeit, Herbalist, Mint, and Mandarin all have similar problems with trashing or otherwise moving in-play Duration-Treasures, as with Bonfire and Crypt. There are probably others I'm missing.

I know from Allies reveals DXV said Counterfeit was getting non-Duration errata. I imagine we'll see something similar with Mint for Prosperity 2E (if it isn't just removed all together). Mandarin will surely get removed in Hinterlands 2E, and well Herbalist probably won't get printed again but should maybe still have errata.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 12:15:32 pm »
+2

I was quietly hoping Ghost Ship would get the axe.  I guess that makes me a "casual" but man, that card wasn't fun.  Monkey looks a lot more fun.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 12:21:47 pm by Chappy7 »
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Imrahil3

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 12:18:16 pm »
+1

Sad to see Ghost Ship go, but Monkey is probably a new favorite card. I know my play group will really enjoy it!

I’ll always have Embargo nostalgia, but Blockade seems so much better for the game’s flow.

Love Astrolabe too.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2022, 01:44:32 pm »
+7

So if I blockade Curses, and an opponent does something to gain a Curse on their own turn, they would trigger a cascade of gaining the entire Curse pile. Is that correct?

If it is... are there any interesting edge cases where this (either Blockading curses, or gaining a curse when they're blockaded) is something that might strategically make sense? The latter I think is believable enough if it lets you 3 pile, but what about cases where the opponent wasn't just being stupid by Blockading Curses and you still want to gain all the curses anyway?
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2022, 01:47:24 pm »
+1

So if I blockade Curses, and an opponent does something to gain a Curse on their own turn, they would trigger a cascade of gaining the entire Curse pile. Is that correct?

If it is... are there any interesting edge cases where this (either Blockading curses, or gaining a curse when they're blockaded) is something that might strategically make sense? The latter I think is believable enough if it lets you 3 pile, but what about cases where the opponent wasn't just being stupid by Blockading Curses and you still want to gain all the curses anyway?
Watchtower + Tomb is the obvious one, but there are probably others.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2022, 02:12:25 pm »
+8

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2022, 02:34:33 pm »
0

I was quietly hoping Ghost Ship would get the axe.  I guess that makes me a "casual" but man, that card wasn't fun.  Monkey looks a lot more fun.

Nah, I didn't like it, either. It was so demotivating.

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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2022, 03:52:04 pm »
+1

I'm not sad to see Ghost Ship gone either. It's two Relic attacks on an Otter, and having one Relic attack on a Silver is already pretty strong and annoying to get hit by (and Silver sucks).
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2022, 03:54:35 pm »
+2

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2022, 04:01:17 pm »
+4

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

That's true, but you can only Blockade cards costing up to $4 and only n-1 different ones where n is the number of Blockades you're able to play on a given turn. Most likely you'll just end up gaining the Curse for almost no benefit as the opponent just buys something else.
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2022, 04:04:02 pm »
+2

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

Blockade only works for cards costing up to $4, though, so it's a bit limited in what you could productively Blockade (barring cost-reduction of course)

Black Cat + Blockade would be truly awful. Black Cat in the kingdom would make gaining any Victory cards very risky when there's a Blockaded Curse
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2022, 04:07:00 pm »
0

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

Blockade only works for cards costing up to $4, though, so it's a bit limited in what you could productively Blockade (barring cost-reduction of course)

Black Cat + Blockade would be truly awful. Black Cat in the kingdom would make gaining any Victory cards very risky when there's a Blockaded Curse

Or, for that matter, in multiplayer, any other Cursing attack (except Coven)

Player A blockades a Curse
Player B plays a Witch
Player C gains a Curse from the Witch ... then all the rest of the Curses from Blockade
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Re: Seaside 2E Preview 1
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2022, 04:08:07 pm »
0

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

That's true, but you can only Blockade cards costing up to $4 and only n-1 different ones where n is the number of Blockades you're able to play on a given turn. Most likely you'll just end up gaining the Curse for almost no benefit as the opponent just buys something else.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's a strong synergy, just an obvious one. Somehow I overlooked that it can work with itself, albeit in a somewhat limited way, to potentially threaten to dump the curse pile on an opponent.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
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