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[Donald X.]

Seaside 2E! At last, its mysteries may be revealed.

Each day for 3 days I'll show 3 cards leaving, and the 3 replacing them, and talk about all six. The last day will throw in the miscellaneous minor errata because why not, someone cares.

The overall goal was... to take out bad-to-print cards and replace them with better-to-print ones. That was really all I was doing. But along the way the percentage of the cards that are Durations went up; in fact all but one of the new cards are Durations. And I see this as a good thing, of course, or I wouldn't have done it. There is twice as much of the set's new thing. And then, Seaside was a bit low on draw; Seaside 2E has more draw. On to the cards!



I guess someone out there will miss the blanks. I think they're still available as a promo? Obv. the set would be better with a card in that slot. There's still a single blank.

Astrolabe is a Treasure - Duration! And not something like Contract that manages to avoid any issues if you trash it from play. What can it mean? Well, when the time comes to reprint the sets with Bonfire etc., those cards will get errata so that they don't mess up with Durations. And then so much for trashing Astrolabe in a confusing way. So anyway, Astrolabe itself is just a vanilla Duration card, but it's a Treasure and well just look at it. So pretty.



Embargo requires dedicated tokens, just for this card that often no-one buys. That sure wanted to be fixed. And it already had errata due to the changes to Band of Misfits & co.

Blockade is the new Embargo. No tokens required. And it blocks other players and not you, and they can't even get around it with Workshops. It really embargoes things, you get the embargoing experience you always wanted.



Ghost Ship actually won a most-hated attack poll on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/99rlui/results_most_hated_attacks/). Expert players may miss it, but it makes casual players miserable. You don't get to see your deck, that's the main thing. For Dominion and Intrigue 2E, weak cards left; for Seaside 2E, a few strong cards left too.

Monkey isn't even an attack; Seaside is following in the footsteps of later sets, that are a little lighter on attacks. It's interactive though. You draw cards if they gain cards. They'll feel attacked, take it from me.

http://dominion.games/ plans to have the cards available to play via a "preview" mode; they're probably there as you read this. More previews tomorrow!

[dz]

With the help of Discord DomBot, here are the official rulebook entries for the cards, plus some other rulings:

Astrolabe:
• This gives you +1 Buy and +$1 on the turn you play it, and +1 Buy and +$1 on your next turn too.

Blockade:
• The gained card comes from the Supply and is set aside; put it on the Blockade to remember which card goes with Blockade.
• If the gained card somehow doesn't end up set aside (for example if you trash it with Watchtower from Prosperity), nothing further happens; if the card is set aside, then you put it into your hand on your next turn, and until then, when other players gain the card on their own turns, they also gain a Curse.

Unlike Summon, the card is directly gained to set aside land. So if you gain a Nomad Camp or Ghost Town, you didn't gain it to your discard pile, so their abilities don't trigger. If the card is no longer set aside (like in the Watchtower example), Blockade doesn't stay in play for next turn. Like all Duration attacks, you have to reveal your Moat as soon as it's played.

Monkey:
• This includes cards that the player gains on other players' turns, such as a Curse they gain on your turn via Witch.

When they gain the card, they resolve all their on-gain effects before you resolve Monkey (which could matter vs Skirmisher). If you draw a reaction that could respond to the card they gained (such as Falconer), you can use it.

[faust]

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.

[AJD]

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.

Way of the Astrolabe

[infangthief]

Blank was certainly one of the less frequently bought cards. It never really synergised with anything. Happy to see it go.

Astrolabe is the next turn Market. I like the look of Blockade.

[beri]

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.

Then it should be Parrot.

My bet for the next removed cards is on: Navigator, Explorer, Pearl diver, Ambassador, Treasure map, Pirate ship, Sea hag.

[sudhish86]

cool idea. one of the main reasons i love dominion is how the creator/developer actively changes things up to keep things fresh. definitely adds replay value

[Oyvind]

It makes me sad that Monkey is doing something very different than Way of the Monkey. But I guess calling the card Squirrel would not have made it Seaside-y enough.

Then it should be Parrot.

My bet for the next removed cards is on: Navigator, Explorer, Pearl diver, Ambassador, Treasure map, Pirate ship, Sea hag.

Only six more cards are getting the axe, and it’s been more or less deduced which six remaining cards will be removed.

[Hockey Mask]

Yay! More cards!

[J Reggie]

This art is on point!

[mxdata]

As it currently stands, Crypt can still have an odd interaction with Astrolabe, though that issue had already existed since Renaissance introduced the Capitalism project. Will Crypt also get errata to no longer work with Durations?

[Sparafucile]

Embargoing provinces and duchies made for interesting end games.  Even embargoing gold or potion piles was fun.    The big problem with embargo early game was that there was no way to embargo the good cards from your opponent while leaving an opening for you to get the embargoed card.


If embargo had taken effect at the end of the turn instead of right away, it would have been a big difference. 

[4est]

As it currently stands, Crypt can still have an odd interaction with Astrolabe, though that issue had already existed since Renaissance introduced the Capitalism project. Will Crypt also get errata to no longer work with Durations?

Counterfeit, Herbalist, Mint, and Mandarin all have similar problems with trashing or otherwise moving in-play Duration-Treasures, as with Bonfire and Crypt. There are probably others I'm missing.

I know from Allies reveals DXV said Counterfeit was getting non-Duration errata. I imagine we'll see something similar with Mint for Prosperity 2E (if it isn't just removed all together). Mandarin will surely get removed in Hinterlands 2E, and well Herbalist probably won't get printed again but should maybe still have errata.

[Chappy7]

I was quietly hoping Ghost Ship would get the axe.  I guess that makes me a "casual" but man, that card wasn't fun.  Monkey looks a lot more fun.

[Imrahil3]

Sad to see Ghost Ship go, but Monkey is probably a new favorite card. I know my play group will really enjoy it!

I’ll always have Embargo nostalgia, but Blockade seems so much better for the game’s flow.

Love Astrolabe too.

[Tables]

So if I blockade Curses, and an opponent does something to gain a Curse on their own turn, they would trigger a cascade of gaining the entire Curse pile. Is that correct?

If it is... are there any interesting edge cases where this (either Blockading curses, or gaining a curse when they're blockaded) is something that might strategically make sense? The latter I think is believable enough if it lets you 3 pile, but what about cases where the opponent wasn't just being stupid by Blockading Curses and you still want to gain all the curses anyway?

[Jack Rudd]

So if I blockade Curses, and an opponent does something to gain a Curse on their own turn, they would trigger a cascade of gaining the entire Curse pile. Is that correct?

If it is... are there any interesting edge cases where this (either Blockading curses, or gaining a curse when they're blockaded) is something that might strategically make sense? The latter I think is believable enough if it lets you 3 pile, but what about cases where the opponent wasn't just being stupid by Blockading Curses and you still want to gain all the curses anyway?

Watchtower + Tomb is the obvious one, but there are probably others.

[Imrahil3]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

[silverspawn]

I was quietly hoping Ghost Ship would get the axe.  I guess that makes me a "casual" but man, that card wasn't fun.  Monkey looks a lot more fun.

Nah, I didn't like it, either. It was so demotivating.

[Awaclus]

I'm not sad to see Ghost Ship gone either. It's two Relic attacks on an Otter, and having one Relic attack on a Silver is already pretty strong and annoying to get hit by (and Silver sucks).

[Tables]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

[Awaclus]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

That's true, but you can only Blockade cards costing up to $4 and only n-1 different ones where n is the number of Blockades you're able to play on a given turn. Most likely you'll just end up gaining the Curse for almost no benefit as the opponent just buys something else.

[mxdata]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

Blockade only works for cards costing up to $4, though, so it's a bit limited in what you could productively Blockade (barring cost-reduction of course)

Black Cat + Blockade would be truly awful. Black Cat in the kingdom would make gaining any Victory cards very risky when there's a Blockaded Curse

[mxdata]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

Blockade only works for cards costing up to $4, though, so it's a bit limited in what you could productively Blockade (barring cost-reduction of course)

Black Cat + Blockade would be truly awful. Black Cat in the kingdom would make gaining any Victory cards very risky when there's a Blockaded Curse

Or, for that matter, in multiplayer, any other Cursing attack (except Coven)

Player A blockades a Curse
Player B plays a Witch
Player C gains a Curse from the Witch ... then all the rest of the Curses from Blockade

[Tables]

Seems like Blockade would pair dangerously with Swamp Hag - you lock them out of buying a card unless they want to gain the remaining 9 curses.

In that case Watchtower would be great because you can trash all of the Curses at once so you don’t have to deal with them any more.

I realised there's an even more obvious Blockade combo: Blockade.

First you Blockade all the cards you want them to not gain. Then, you Blockade a Curse. If they gain any of the cards you blockade, they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse, then Blockade on Curse triggers and they gain a Curse and so on.

That's true, but you can only Blockade cards costing up to $4 and only n-1 different ones where n is the number of Blockades you're able to play on a given turn. Most likely you'll just end up gaining the Curse for almost no benefit as the opponent just buys something else.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's a strong synergy, just an obvious one. Somehow I overlooked that it can work with itself, albeit in a somewhat limited way, to potentially threaten to dump the curse pile on an opponent.

[CaptainTheo]

It seems to me that if someone Blockades Curse and you gain a Curse with Trader in hand, you could exchange each Curse for Silver and end up with all the Silver - though you would then still have to gain all of the curses.

[AJD]

Or, for that matter, in multiplayer, any other Cursing attack (except Coven)

Player A blockades a Curse
Player B plays a Witch
Player C gains a Curse from the Witch ... then all the rest of the Curses from Blockade

This one doesn’t work; Blockade only is activated by card gained on their turn, not yours.

[GendoIkari]

Black Cat + Blockade would be truly awful. Black Cat in the kingdom would make gaining any Victory cards very risky when there's a Blockaded Curse

I don't think it would be that bad though, because the only way there can be a Blockaded Curse is if your opponent chose to gain a Curse. So for every turn where they choose to gain a Curse, they scare you away from gaining a Victory card. This would not be a normal issue throughout the game, but it could lead to some very interesting ending plays... scared of buying the Penultimate Province because it would put you up by just 5 points? Just also Blockade a Curse (and hope to draw Black Cat).

[Chappy7]

It seems to me that if someone Blockades Curse and you gain a Curse with Trader in hand, you could exchange each Curse for Silver and end up with all the Silver - though you would then still have to gain all of the curses.

That would be cool with Tower in the kingdom

[mxdata]

It seems to me that if someone Blockades Curse and you gain a Curse with Trader in hand, you could exchange each Curse for Silver and end up with all the Silver - though you would then still have to gain all of the curses.

That would be cool with Tower in the kingdom

Or Feodum

[mxdata]

Or, for that matter, in multiplayer, any other Cursing attack (except Coven)

Player A blockades a Curse
Player B plays a Witch
Player C gains a Curse from the Witch ... then all the rest of the Curses from Blockade

This one doesn’t work; Blockade only is activated by card gained on their turn, not yours.

Oh, right. Good point

[emtzalex]

It seems to me that if someone Blockades Curse and you gain a Curse with Trader in hand, you could exchange each Curse for Silver and end up with all the Silver - though you would then still have to gain all of the curses.

I think maybe it is possible to get all the Silvers and none of the Curses. If your opponent Blockades a Curse, then you gain a Curse on your turn, there are things that can happen on-gain: you can reveal Trader to swap the Curse for a Silver, and Blockade will trigger to give you another Curse. Since it is your turn, you get to decide the order in which those things happen.

Until the number of Silvers left in the supply is equal to the number of Curses, you should trigger Trader first, Exchanging the Curse for a Silver. Once that is done, Blockade will trigger and give you another Curse. Once the number of Curses and Silvers in the Supply are equal (before you get the Curse), then you let Blockade trigger first, and chain it until you have all of the Curses. At that point Blockade will trigger a final time, but fail to gain a Curse (and, therefore, not be triggered again by you gaining a Curse). However, it is still the on-gain time for each of those Curses, as you had a second thing you could do (reveal Trader). You reveal Trader for each of those Curses, swapping them for a Silver. At the end you have swapped back all of the Curses and emptied the Silver pile.

I may be wrong about this, but based on my understanding of the rules, I think it is possible.

[Gherald]

Blockade Curse to prevent opponent from getting Defiled Shrine VP

[4est]

I think all this talk of obscure interactions to pile out the Curses (which will NEVER happen in 99% of actual games) is distracting us from Blockade's real power: seeding your next hand.

After playing some games with it, Blockade really makes other "gain to your next hand" cards like Armory and Cobbler look quite silly. Obviously Armory can allow for this turn gain and play and Cobbler is nonterminal, but even still Blockade's ability to maintain consistency by adding an extra Village or a draw card to your next hand is clutch. Even without the Cursing, a Duration Workshop that gained to next hand would probably be a pretty solid $4. The Attack is really just icing on the cake.

[Gherald]

Are we "distracted" from this basic functionality? We've seen it before, it's just a terminal Cobbler. Apart from costing 4 for being terminal, another side benefit over Cobbler is that you can combine it with cost reducers as with most workshops, and ofc it doesn't require the target supply pile being non-empty at the start of your turn.

Certainly durations like these are quite powerful at the start of your next turn, we all know this obvious fact--their disadvantage for your deck is you can't play them on successive turns so you need an extra copy if you want their effect permanently at your disposal.

[dpm]

Cobbler allows you to see your next hand before choosing the card -- that's a pretty notable advantage. 

[MrHepp]

Any ideas on what to do with the embargo tokens if you decide not to keep the Embargo cards in your collection? Can they be repurposed? My first thought was to use them as Favor tokens to avoid the Favor mat, but they are too few.

[Imrahil3]

Any ideas on what to do with the embargo tokens if you decide not to keep the Embargo cards in your collection? Can they be repurposed? My first thought was to use them as Favor tokens to avoid the Favor mat, but they are too few.

For about three weeks you could use them as coin tokens for Trade Route.

[vidicate]

Any ideas on what to do with the embargo tokens if you decide not to keep the Embargo cards in your collection? Can they be repurposed? My first thought was to use them as Favor tokens to avoid the Favor mat, but they are too few.

For about three weeks you could use them as coin tokens for Trade Route.

Is 3 weeks based on when Donald said “a few weeks”? Because that’s not the same as 3, and could easily be 2+ months. Just saying

[Imrahil3]

Any ideas on what to do with the embargo tokens if you decide not to keep the Embargo cards in your collection? Can they be repurposed? My first thought was to use them as Favor tokens to avoid the Favor mat, but they are too few.

For about three weeks you could use them as coin tokens for Trade Route.

Is 3 weeks based on when Donald said “a few weeks”? Because that’s not the same as 3, and could easily be 2+ months. Just saying

Nope. Three weeks from now I’m going to break into your house and steal your Embargo Tokens.

[Commodore Chuckles]

I really hate to say this, but... Astrolabe looks like Woodcutter 2.0. There doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it over Silver unless you need the +Buy.

[D782802859]

I really hate to say this, but... Astrolabe looks like Woodcutter 2.0. There doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it over Silver unless you need the +Buy.

Being non-terminal and only a stop card half of the time makes it quite a bit better than Woodcutter (and Silver, for that matter).

[AJD]

I really hate to say this, but... Astrolabe looks like Woodcutter 2.0. There doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it over Silver unless you need the +Buy.

Astrolabe : Woodcutter :: Fishing Village : Silver

[vidicate]

Any ideas on what to do with the embargo tokens if you decide not to keep the Embargo cards in your collection? Can they be repurposed? My first thought was to use them as Favor tokens to avoid the Favor mat, but they are too few.

For about three weeks you could use them as coin tokens for Trade Route.

Is 3 weeks based on when Donald said “a few weeks”? Because that’s not the same as 3, and could easily be 2+ months. Just saying

Nope. Three weeks from now I’m going to break into your house and steal your Embargo Tokens.

Oh noes! Not my precious tokens!

[Commodore Chuckles]

I really hate to say this, but... Astrolabe looks like Woodcutter 2.0. There doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it over Silver unless you need the +Buy.

Being non-terminal and only a stop card half of the time makes it quite a bit better than Woodcutter (and Silver, for that matter).

I'm not seeing it. If you're drawing your whole deck, you need two of them to get the same $ that one Silver gives you.

[Holger]

I really hate to say this, but... Astrolabe looks like Woodcutter 2.0. There doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it over Silver unless you need the +Buy.

Being non-terminal and only a stop card half of the time makes it quite a bit better than Woodcutter (and Silver, for that matter).

I'm not seeing it. If you're drawing your whole deck, you need two of them to get the same $ that one Silver gives you.

Of course you'll only gain it when you need the extra buys Astrolabe provides, otherwise Silver is preferable.
On boards without Attacks (and no draw-to-x cards etc.), it's strictly better than Lighthouse thanks to the +buys. But maybe Astrolabe could have also cost $2.

[ackmondual]

Embargo requires dedicated tokens, just for this card that often no-one buys. That sure wanted to be fixed. And it already had errata due to the changes to Band of Misfits & co.

Blockade is the new Embargo. No tokens required. And it blocks other players and not you, and they can't even get around it with Workshops. It really embargoes things, you get the embargoing experience you always wanted.

I can't argue the appeal of not having to have dedicated tokens for just this one kingdom card.  That said, an anecdote I'd like to share was a couple were bummed that Seaside no longer came with base/foundation cards (reminder that Intrigue 1E cards did!).  The value wasn't there for them.  I mentioned that it does come with 2 sets of (shiny) metal tokens.  I guess they like metal [shrug].,  They changed their tune and ended up getting Seaside (1E)!

[Donald X.]

I can't argue the appeal of not having to have dedicated tokens for just this one kingdom card.  That said, an anecdote I'd like to share was a couple were bummed that Seaside no longer came with base/foundation cards (reminder that Intrigue 1E cards did!).  The value wasn't there for them.  I mentioned that it does come with 2 sets of (shiny) metal tokens.  I guess they like metal [shrug].,  They changed their tune and ended up getting Seaside (1E)!

And that's how it got them; worries over the expansions not seeming like they had enough value-for-money, back when it wasn't so clear that in fact they were fine.

But I mean. For people who are only going to buy a few sets, well a bunch have metal now. And get lots of use out of it too.

[Jeebus]

It seems to me that if someone Blockades Curse and you gain a Curse with Trader in hand, you could exchange each Curse for Silver and end up with all the Silver - though you would then still have to gain all of the curses.

I think maybe it is possible to get all the Silvers and none of the Curses. If your opponent Blockades a Curse, then you gain a Curse on your turn, there are things that can happen on-gain: you can reveal Trader to swap the Curse for a Silver, and Blockade will trigger to give you another Curse. Since it is your turn, you get to decide the order in which those things happen.

Until the number of Silvers left in the supply is equal to the number of Curses, you should trigger Trader first, Exchanging the Curse for a Silver. Once that is done, Blockade will trigger and give you another Curse. Once the number of Curses and Silvers in the Supply are equal (before you get the Curse), then you let Blockade trigger first, and chain it until you have all of the Curses. At that point Blockade will trigger a final time, but fail to gain a Curse (and, therefore, not be triggered again by you gaining a Curse). However, it is still the on-gain time for each of those Curses, as you had a second thing you could do (reveal Trader). You reveal Trader for each of those Curses, swapping them for a Silver. At the end you have swapped back all of the Curses and emptied the Silver pile.

I may be wrong about this, but based on my understanding of the rules, I think it is possible.

I think you're right. Well reasoned.
Of course you could also just gain all the Curses first, then exchange them all for Silvers. This way you don't empty the Silver pile, you just get Silvers instead of Curses. The Curses are all back in the pile (except the one your opponent gained for Blockading), so the whole thing could happen again during the game. But as soon as the Silvers run out (either because someone decided to gain all of them at once, or because the players have been exchanging Curses for Silver one-to-one until the Silvers ran out, the trick doesn't work anymore. The threat is never eliminated until the Curse pile is empty.

[Jeebus]

Monkey:
• This includes cards that the player gains on other players' turns, such as a Curse they gain on your turn via Witch.

When they gain the card, they resolve all their on-gain effects before you resolve Monkey (which could matter vs Skirmisher). If you draw a reaction that could respond to the card they gained (such as Falconer), you can use it.

Doesn't that depend on whose turn it is? If they gain a card during your turn, or during the turn of a player who is before you in turn order, you resolve Monkey first. If they have any Reaction to gaining the card, they would have to use it after you draw for Monkey. Right?

[Jeebus]

What is the new expansion symbol, a sail boat?

[vidicate]

Sailboat, yes.
Btw, where in the wiki can we find historical (1st edition) set icons?

[dirkdebeule]

Sailboat, yes.
Btw, where in the wiki can we find historical (1st edition) set icons?

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Category:Card_symbols